As folks have said. An individual asshole has advantage over an individual non asshole. Thing is our society can only funtion with a certain amount of assholes before collapsing and it does not take a surprisingly large amount. Which is why we are collapsing.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that people don’t care. People do care, a lot of people care a lot. Part of the problem is that people who want to act ethically and politely, people who want to minimize harm, are going to be at a distinct disadvantage when opposing people for whom the ends always justify the means, and the ends they seek are their own betterment above all else.
If your idea of action is sternly worded letters and peaceful protest, and my idea of action is violence and unabashed corruption of authority, you’re going to have a real uphill battle to dislodge me from any power I manage to gain. It doesn’t mean the corrupt assholes are unstoppable, only that their methods are more aligned with the acquisition and retention of power.
The system isn’t formed based on the wills of individuals, nor is there an inherent “nice” or “mean” quality to people. If we all decide we want to live in a perfect utopia, that still won’t take form, because that’s not how societal progression works. We live in capitalism, because capitalism emerged from preceding modes of production like feudalism. It wasn’t a choice people made, but an economic progression on the basis of private property and free-moving capital, which leads us to today where a tiny handful own the lion’s share of production.
Capitalism is riddled with contradictions, however, and these contradictions sharpen over time. We move onto socialism by organizing, where we can actually take control of production and run it along a common plan to suit the needs of the people.
Edit: figured it’s a good chance to plug my introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, if what I said makes sense to you!
Socialism only works in small coherent groups. It doesn’t scale. You can run a socialist business, or group, or town. Sure. People are generally pro socialism when it’s amongst their own tribe.
You can’t run a socialist multi-ethnic society for millions of people. Human tribalism.
All the socialists I know seem to have a hate hard on for working class people. At least where I live.
To the contrary, socialism can only work at scale. Small-scale cooperation exists, yes, but isn’t really “socialism” as we understand it. A business cannot be “socialist,” socialism is a descriptor for an entire mode of production, not a quantum unit of an economy. Socialism is a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect, and regularly is proven to be superior to capitalism. The largest economy in the world by PPP is socialist, the PRC, and it’s a broad, diverse, multi-ethnic society of billions.
I think you’d do well to research more on socialism. “Human tribalism” is more of a response to immediate conditions within capitalism, a system dominated by private property. It isn’t some eternal genetic fault in humans, over time we have become increasingly interconnected and interdependent. Socialism is the natural evolution from that point now that capitalism has already centralized the broad majority of production, meaning coherent and deliberate planning of the economy is more feasible.
You can’t research socialism on a large scale because it has never existed.
You’re arguing from an ideal. I’m arguing from reality. I look at evidence, not theoretical constructs of how the world ‘should’ be. ’
PRC is not socialist dude. You are straight up delusional. It’s autocratic capitalism. They pivoted to that after Maoism was a titanic failure. But hey, don’t like history or facts get in the way of the fantasy in your head that you got from reading a few books?
Socialism has existed on a large scale for over a century. The USSR was the first, and now we have countries like Cuba, Vietnam, the PRC, etc, all economies where public ownership is the principle aspect of society. I’m not arguing from an “ideal,” I’m speaking purely about existing material reality. Using the PRC as an example, the large firms and key industries are overwhelmingly publicly owned:
The PRC did introduce Reform and Opening Up after struggles within the Cultural Revolution and the Gang of Four. These reforms didn’t change that public ownership is still the principle aspect of the economy, though. Private and cooperative ownership existed even under Mao, and economic growth was positive under Mao, just unstable, which the market reforms and introduction of special economic zones helped make stable and regular:
Pre-Reform and Opening Up
Post-Reform and Opening UpYou didn’t bring any facts to the table or any analysis, you just said “no” then insulted me. It"s insulting and utterly insufficient for proving your claims.
It can certainly feel that way. And I do think there is no such thing as an ethical billionaire, if by favouring assholes you mean rewarding monetarily.
I argue though, that without kindness there would be no societies. Even if the parable of the Margaret Mead’s healed femur isn’t true, the fact remains that there are in fact those who help, and they are probably more plentiful than those who hurt. They’re just harder to spot, because media makes money off emotions and fear and anger are stronger than hope.
To quote Mr Rogers “look for the helpers”, because they are there. And if you’re not seeing them, maybe it’s time for a news break. Including social media, just for a week. And then see how you are feeling. I have to take breaks now and then, and I promise it helps.
Darwin talked about societies and advancement in species around communication. It is important for us to be able to communicate threats in order to build community. Assholes don’t build lasting societies.
More and more I see that a lot of people who think they’re “nice” are just lazy and largely uprincipled people who assume that they’re doing good simply because they have good intentions and they’re not actively creating problems.
Don’t forget, supporting the status quo and doing the popular thing, regardless of how hypocritical it is.
What gets me is how openly hypocritical people are becoming. There is no more shame. I notice that many of the ‘principled’ people think their principles do not apply to them. Only other people that they don’t like.
I’m not even talking politics. Often in personal relationships people will tell you how lying is awful, but then lie themselves and justify it by claiming that everyone else is doing it or that they had to do it because they are ‘disadvantaged’.
Gork, what is capitalism?
To look at people in capitalist society and conclude that human nature is egoism, is like looking at people in a factory where pollution is destroying their lungs and saying that it is human nature to cough.
Sure I care but what can I do besides voting?
Not voting. It shows the system that the electoral theater they put up to placate the people doesn’t fool you.
Organizing, which is far more important, and it isn’t close. Voting is less than the bare minimum.
I can think of one recent event
not saying it’s valid, just that it’s a possibility
Live your life by example.
The world has enough people who preach and don’t practice. It needs more people that practice and don’t preach.
You can do propaganda
I don’t think that there’s more assholes than decent people. I think the assholes just stick out more.
I think deep down most people are assholes. But it’s just hard-wiring.
Not being a decent person is hard. And assholes won’t think you’re decent unless you are also an asshole with them.
The assholes bought everything up, including the law and politicians. They rigged the game so no one else can climb the same ladder they did. But, also, death throes look like this. They positioned themselves so that the entire populous of the earth can’t sustain life, unless they don’t. That imbalance is about to be corrected. It’s gunna get a little bit worse before it gets better though, hang on.
Nice people are unwilling to do the things necessary to stop assholes. Nice people won’t berate them, most won’t call them out, etc etc.
Nice people will also turn on those of us who do call them out. Standing up to popular bully is the fastest way to get people to turn on you.
Popularity is what people care about. As long as violence is against unpopular people, it’s great.
Unfortunately society encourages and glorifies shitty behaviour. So this behaviour is completely normalised for the majority of people who see it as a thing to be desired, rather than something thats shitty.
Amen. Just look at media. Look at popular media.
Tells you all you need to know.
People who don’t realize that tolerance is a social contract will tolerate assholism, which abets the assholing.
That’s got to stop.
Yeah. Now stop being afraid and stand up to the fucking bullies. Now watch as they change the definition of “intolerant”.
“Standing up to a bully that wants to kill you? That’s Intolerant!”.
Sound familiar? The nazi with the giant hole in his neck? Oh no, I’m being intolerant. The christian terrorist nazi psychopath with the giant hole in his neck.
You won’t have a chance to be intolerant of the nazis very soon, if you don’t start fighting against the nazis in effective ways.
Ok but how do we deal with… you know… those people who destroy community for profits, who undermine us by exposing us with global competition, the people who promote laws like “right to work” and “no child left behind” to break our organizations against their power asymmetry while making us dumber and weaker, the people who rig the system with a smile without saying even one slur ?
Do we have to tolerate them if they duck us by the rules ?
That makes sense actually
WTF didn’t Popper include that obvious fact ?
Was it just taken for granted in the post world wars that assholes catch bullets ?I do wish we could stop confusing tolerance with active support though. I don’t need to be on your team to tolerate you or your lifestyle. In fact, we don’t even need to acknowledge each other’s existence to be tolerant of one another. We just need to let each other exist unimpeded.
whoa, I just realized this is basically the left-lib equivalent of the NAP.
A bummer because im naturally nice and i get upset at people who aren’t. I just dont get it. I feel awful if I’m mean or something by accident or get misinterpreted. I wonder what it is, because my parents are not very nice people.
I grew up in a household full of hateful bigoted ignorant people. I’m aware of the consequences of that.
People who didn’t grow up with that experience aren’t. I noticed most of the hateful ignorant people I meet grew up with ‘supportive’ parents… and basically were isolated form the consequences of their actions. They don’t have ot be nice or kind… because they will get what they want regardless of how they behave because money and power and privileged.
These are also the same people who think anyone who doesn’t have a elite degree or wear designer clothing is subhuman. They think they are inherently superior to other human beings because they possess these things… which were given to them by their wealthy families and they operated under the delusion that anyone who doesn’t have those things just didn’t work hard as they did. And anyone who doesn’t want them… is mentally ill.
It damages my calm on a daily basis. Our society rewards sociopathy. It’s that simple. And I fucking hate it.
I’ve noticed this. Even in small groups of ‘community’ minded people. The sociopaths always rise to the top and the good honest people get pushed aside. And people LOVE it. Because the sociopaths tell people what they want to hear and people love being lied to.
And nothing pisses off a sociopath more when you aren’t swayed by their bullshit or offer deference to their status. They get so angry with you and they will then character assassinate you, usually by spreading lies and rumors. And people eat it up because they’d rather believe in dramatic bullshit lies than the truth in front of their faces.
In my own circles, I tend to counter this by employing radical honesty, being extremely data driven, and calling out bullshit extremely aggressively whenever I possibly can. It for sure alienates people sometimes, but the people who are alienated tend to be the people who are also psychopaths, so I genuinely do not care about that “drawback”.
There are more assholes than good people because assholery typically delivers better results in terms of wealth, power, and status, and good people have to accept a lower social status in order to maintain their goodness, but most people don’t fall into either category.
But the vast majority of people fall into an apathetic middle ground where they don’t really think too much about any kind of moral consistency and act according to paths they’re already on and the rules those paths require.
Yeah that’s accurate. I accept lower social status for my goodness.
Turns out other people don’t admire that. They admire assholes and they tend to think anyone who isn’t seeking wealth, power, and status is mentally deficient. At least in USA. I have been told many times that me not rent-seeking and exploiting others is ‘being lazy’.
