One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They’re not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
Rather, I’m arguing against “enlightened centrism”. Both sides are not the same at all, there is one party clearly better than the other. Not defending the US in general. But if everyone voted Democrat our problems would be greatly improved.
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party. If everyone voted for the second party, they’d eventually be able to pitch reducing the number of slaves. But they can’t because half the country is Nazis. It’s a dirty game but it’s one worth playing, even if we use protests and others tools as well.
Rather, I’m arguing against “enlightened centrism”
Your instance has been very supportive of ‘enlightened centrism’ when it comes to colonialism vs anti-colonialism. Let’s hope that you are, in fact, opposed to that.
However, the opposition to both of the parties is not a case of ‘enlightened centrism’. They are literally both right-wing genocidal factions of rulers of NATO.
Both sides are not the same at all
In the case of USian ruling factions, the difference is just PR. And, maybe, competence in conducting genocides, invasions, and other colonialist activities.
there is one party clearly better than the other
Considering that the current administration has seemingly been making decisions that have been harmful to NATO’s ability to invade the rest of the world in the long term, it seems that the party that currently holds more power is the better one.
But if everyone voted Democrat our problems would be greatly improved
How?
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party
Both of the parties are for doubling the slaves and for conducting genocides. The currently dominant one seems to be less competent when it comes to achieving those goals.
But they can’t because half the country is Nazis
Much more than that - almost all USians were in favour of invading Iraq, and I find it likely that not much has changed.
Either way, both of those parties are at least almost completely nazi.
It’s a dirty game but it’s one worth playing
Why? Electoralist efforts have evidently not achieved much throughout their existence. It’s time to accept reality.
I don’t know what my instance believes, nor do I care.
I wouldn’t argue against opposing both parties, or the US in general. I’m American and I choose to vote for the party that seems substantially better. Voting correctly is important, but not enough.
Voting Republican caused Ukraine to lose its funding. I don’t side with any genocide that NATO commits but don’t forget it also protects billions of people. The game is dirty and imperfect but we should still play it to survive.
Democrat policies reduce wealth inequality, which Republican ones increase it.
All Nazis are Republicans. Few to none are Democrats.
Basically none of your arguments are rooted in truth, even slightly. I doubt you will be convinced of what I’m saying.
Has voting ever produced any sort of serious effect in the US?
Voting Republican caused Ukraine to lose its funding
Meaning that the state of Ukraine will have less of a reason and less of an ability to avoid peace negotiations to stop the bloodshed. This is good.
but don’t forget it also protects billions of people
It literally does the opposite. It’s a colonial empire that is conducting a genocide right now and that has been invading everywhere in the world to keep billions of people in a colonial yoke. It only defends colonial metropoles and settler-colonies from justice.
Furthermore, at most, it ‘protects’ about a billion of people, and not ‘billions’.
All Nazis are Republicans. Few to none are Democrats
They are almost all nazis. Even if one cares about electoralism, almost all Dems who could voted against reduction of military support for Pissrael.
It’s not really arguable that at least almost all Dems are in favour of genocides and invasions - like the ones into Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan.
Basically none of your arguments are rooted in truth, even slightly
Except for all of them.
Notably, you couldn’t even provide examples of non-nazi Dems, and lied about NATO protecting billions of people and keep lying about voting being important despite having nothing to show for it.
Do the world a favour, and stop defending nazis at the helm of your empire, and stop claiming that your invasions and genocides are ‘protecting’ anybody.
Do the world a favor and stop supporting Nazis, stop claiming that your beliefs are protecting anybody. I can’t believe you think that Jews and immigrants are subhumans. I have nothing more to say to you. You’re a white supremacist, plain and simple.
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don’t call themselves socialist, because they aren’t.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world’s largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not “kill millions of people,” in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You’d do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
They did. They were all pardoned by Trump. Trump would have been sent to prison if he didn’t win the election. Our Democracy is working, it reflects the idiocy of over half our population who voted for everyone to jump off a cliff.
When I walk around, over half the people I talk to support Trump. The other half is actively fighting against it. That’s not support. We’re merely losing.
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”. What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not. That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Ok, I’ll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it:
"Are you in Gaza bypassing the blockade and delivering relief to the affected people right now?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don’t even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
Ok, I’ll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it: [Some thing that in no way resembles anything I said]
You people really cannot behave in good faith, can you?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don’t even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
Incoherent. But I guess I shouldn’t expect more from a genocide apologist fuck like you.
“I have nothing more to say to you, Nazi. Literally you’re a white supremacist who thinks Jews and immigrants are subhuman. If I can’t drive a false narrative, you’re acting in bad faith!!!”
One side supports a criminal Nazi apologist who tried to overthrow our Democracy and hasn’t given up yet. The other side brings a knife to the gun fight.
They’re not even remotely the same. 40 years ago that may have been closer to true.
This is some campist nonsense.
Rather, I’m arguing against “enlightened centrism”. Both sides are not the same at all, there is one party clearly better than the other. Not defending the US in general. But if everyone voted Democrat our problems would be greatly improved.
If there were two parties, one to double the slaves, and another to keep the number of slaves the same, I would vote for the second party. If everyone voted for the second party, they’d eventually be able to pitch reducing the number of slaves. But they can’t because half the country is Nazis. It’s a dirty game but it’s one worth playing, even if we use protests and others tools as well.
Yeah, and to do that you’ve had to engage in outright genocide denial.
I’m bored now, good day
Your instance has been very supportive of ‘enlightened centrism’ when it comes to colonialism vs anti-colonialism. Let’s hope that you are, in fact, opposed to that.
However, the opposition to both of the parties is not a case of ‘enlightened centrism’. They are literally both right-wing genocidal factions of rulers of NATO.
In the case of USian ruling factions, the difference is just PR. And, maybe, competence in conducting genocides, invasions, and other colonialist activities.
Considering that the current administration has seemingly been making decisions that have been harmful to NATO’s ability to invade the rest of the world in the long term, it seems that the party that currently holds more power is the better one.
How?
Both of the parties are for doubling the slaves and for conducting genocides. The currently dominant one seems to be less competent when it comes to achieving those goals.
Much more than that - almost all USians were in favour of invading Iraq, and I find it likely that not much has changed.
Either way, both of those parties are at least almost completely nazi.
Why? Electoralist efforts have evidently not achieved much throughout their existence. It’s time to accept reality.
I don’t know what my instance believes, nor do I care.
I wouldn’t argue against opposing both parties, or the US in general. I’m American and I choose to vote for the party that seems substantially better. Voting correctly is important, but not enough.
Voting Republican caused Ukraine to lose its funding. I don’t side with any genocide that NATO commits but don’t forget it also protects billions of people. The game is dirty and imperfect but we should still play it to survive.
Democrat policies reduce wealth inequality, which Republican ones increase it.
All Nazis are Republicans. Few to none are Democrats.
Basically none of your arguments are rooted in truth, even slightly. I doubt you will be convinced of what I’m saying.
Has voting ever produced any sort of serious effect in the US?
Meaning that the state of Ukraine will have less of a reason and less of an ability to avoid peace negotiations to stop the bloodshed. This is good.
It literally does the opposite. It’s a colonial empire that is conducting a genocide right now and that has been invading everywhere in the world to keep billions of people in a colonial yoke. It only defends colonial metropoles and settler-colonies from justice.
Furthermore, at most, it ‘protects’ about a billion of people, and not ‘billions’.
They are almost all nazis. Even if one cares about electoralism, almost all Dems who could voted against reduction of military support for Pissrael.
It’s not really arguable that at least almost all Dems are in favour of genocides and invasions - like the ones into Iran, Iraq, Syria, Libya, and Afghanistan.
Except for all of them.
Notably, you couldn’t even provide examples of non-nazi Dems, and lied about NATO protecting billions of people and keep lying about voting being important despite having nothing to show for it.
Do the world a favour, and stop defending nazis at the helm of your empire, and stop claiming that your invasions and genocides are ‘protecting’ anybody.
Do the world a favor and stop supporting Nazis, stop claiming that your beliefs are protecting anybody. I can’t believe you think that Jews and immigrants are subhumans. I have nothing more to say to you. You’re a white supremacist, plain and simple.
Absolutely soulless people.
Are you over in Gaza right now, attempting to bypass the blockade and deliver relief to the individuals who suffer?
If not, can you prove you’re not soulless?
Wow, a genocide apologist acting in complete bad faith. What a shock.
You’re a genocide apologist acting in completely bad faith.
The DNC isn’t fighting for workers. They are bringing a gun to the gunfight, they just aren’t interested in using it against the GOP, as ultimately both serve capital. The US has never been a democracy for the people.
Democrats seek to regulate said capital. The Overton window is too far right to have much effect.
Serving capital does not mean we’re not a Democracy. Attempting a coup of the government and disinformation does, however.
They only seek to regulate capital as much as their megacorp and billionaire donors wish. The “Overton Window” has nothing to do with it.
Further, if both parties serve capital, then we have democracy for capital, not for the people.
Not much argument there, but the Overton window has everything to do with it. How do you think other Democrat socialist countries got where they were? At some point they were all pretty much in our boat. I haven’t lost hope yet.
There are no “democratic socialist” countries. Democratic Socialism is a descriptor for reformist socialism, the closest we got was Salvador Allende in Chile. Socialism isn’t just “social programs,” socialism refers to a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, ie the large firms and key industries. The Nordic countries are Social Democracies, welfare capitalism essentially.
The Nordic Countries have the large safety nets they do largely due to proximity with the USSR, who was the first to dramatically expand their safety nets. Combined with millitant labor organizing, these concessions in other countries forced the bourgeoisie’s hand. The problem is that these social safety nets in the global north are funded through imperialism, vast extraction from the global south.
The Overton Window has nothing to do with it. The system is dominated by capitalists, the only way to get even a fraction of what the workers want is through millitant organizing and running our own parties like PSL, the only way to actually get socialism is through revolution.
To most, Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy mean the same thing. Since actual Socialism is usually so irrelevant it requires no clarification. Since you’re an actual socialist I’m gonna doubt we have any constructive dialogue from here on out.
But for the record I don’t believe violent revolution is a winning strategy. It’s a failed experiment that killed millions and it won’t work this time either. Neither is sitting back and hoping things work out, so I can’t dock you.
Better give the USA back to the British Crown then, dumb-ass.
No, the large majority understand the difference between democratic socialism and social democracy. The Nordics don’t call themselves socialist, because they aren’t.
Further, socialism is extremely relevant. The PRC is Socialist, and is the world’s largest economy and industrial power. Support for collectivizing the economy is growing in the west, even if absolute numbers are still low. Socialism remains the only way to move on.
Revolution did not “kill millions of people,” in all major socialist countries life expectancy increased by 50%-100%, infant mortality plumetted, and poverty dramatically reduced. Revolution has proven to be the only way to genuinely democratize the economy and establish socialism, when you try to do that within a liberal capitalist framework like in Chile, you get couped by the US Empire.
You’d do well to join an org like the aforementioned PSL, reading theory and history books are also helpful.
Unlikely but nice try anyways and your arguments are coherent and civil so I appreciate that. Your argument and debate skills are great too.
My belief is a smaller, more progressive one. Not saying violent revolution is off the table, but I don’t think we’re anywhere near it.
No, they aren’t.
If you think that you live under a democracy, i.e. that your government’s decisions reflect your wishes, then you should be held accountable for the genocides and invasions that your state keeps committing.
The US suffering a coup would at worst not make anything worse, including in terms of ‘democracy’.
Just wondering which country are you from?
No they want to appear to regulate capital. Most of the time they don’t actually want to regulate it. Yes they won’t be as overt as to do the massive wealth transfers they the republicans do . But they will. Who was president in 08 ? Who continued to dump money into our military contracts despite running as anti war?
Like yeah the parties are different domestically but foreign policy wise the outcomes are usually the same.
Most right wing policies done by Democrats are necessary because of the electoral college. There is resistance from the right, and Democrats working within the unfair rules need to appease these swing state voters through compromise. Those compromises are ugly and unfair. It’s not usually because they want to appease billionaires. But definitely there is corruption on both sides. Just 10x as much on the right.
Unless that compromise is “don’t commit genocide”, then they’ll happily abaondon the swing-state voters.
I’m bored now, good day
How did you quantity that 10x times?
My best naïve estimate puts Democrats at 1.44-1.98x as corrupt.
😂 I mean for one, the entire presidential election was purchased by a few rich people who used disinformation tactics. Then taxes for the rich were eradicated at the expense of everyone else. That’s the exact opposite of the Democrat’s political ideology. I should say 1000x. I’ll call it “orders of magnitude” instead.
So where did you get 1.98?
Answer the question, genocide denier. How did you quantify 10x times? Or 1000x?
No, it’s exactly Democrat political ideology.
I’m bored now, good day
Octagon9561:
PastaFARRian:
Ok, explain how Democrats support Nazis that attempted a coup?
They didnt put their leader or any of the oganizers in prison for attempting a coup.
They did. They were all pardoned by Trump. Trump would have been sent to prison if he didn’t win the election. Our Democracy is working, it reflects the idiocy of over half our population who voted for everyone to jump off a cliff.
When I walk around, over half the people I talk to support Trump. The other half is actively fighting against it. That’s not support. We’re merely losing.
Trump would never have had the chance if Biden elected an AG who didn’t spend 4 years fucking around.
Its a shame the democrats dont represent those people and chose not to dismantle Trump’s ICE and instead tried to work with republicans.
Yes. We’re losing, and fucking badly.
Maybe you shouldn’t have decided that committing genocide was more important than winning the election.
I’m bored now, good day
Ukraine
Democrats want to keep funding for Ukraine. Republicans want to remove it. Can you be more specific?
And the other side commits genocide. It also overthrows other people’s democracy, but you don’t consider foreigners human.
https://www.inss.org.il/publication/democrats/
Most Democrats express greater sympathy for Palestinians. That’s not what I would call “committing genocide”. What I see is Democrat officials expressing support, but powerless against Republicans who do not. That’s not supporting genocide. We’re fighting, but losing.
Committing genocide is committing genocide. What the fuck is wrong with you?
Then you had your eyes closed for all of 2024
Genocide denier
Ok, I’ll return your argument strategy exactly as you stated it:
"Are you in Gaza bypassing the blockade and delivering relief to the affected people right now?
If not, you are a genocide denier and had your eyes closed for all of 2025. What the fuck is wrong with you? You shameful asshole. People are dying and you don’t even give a fuck. You have nothing more to say that I care about until you personally feed an affected person. Hypocrite."
You people really cannot behave in good faith, can you?
Incoherent. But I guess I shouldn’t expect more from a genocide apologist fuck like you.
Alright, let me return your argument again:
“I have nothing more to say to you, Nazi. Literally you’re a white supremacist who thinks Jews and immigrants are subhuman. If I can’t drive a false narrative, you’re acting in bad faith!!!”
Fascist child.
Keep working on your debate/rhetorical skills kiddo. Not too bad so far, honestly.