recently i just finished building a new pc. mostly for gaming since my only exposure to linux is steam os and i heard its uses arch with kde plasma so i try to emulate it as close as i can. however soon i realized how different it is and it requires more setup than i initially thought. i spent a whole day or two setting it up and i read now im responsible on maintaining it, what does it mean? is it just finding and testing drivers? or system update? what is the easiest way to do it? and what i getting myself into?

when i was about to install steam i found a tutorial on it with 3 - 4 pages full of text and was a bit overwhelmed, i decided just set it up using discover with flatpak, the problem is when i was about to find out how to do that i read mostly people really hate when you ask how to enable it in arch, is it really bad? should i just use konsole instead?

im not very tech savvy and at first I was really reluctant to use konsole but since i decided to use arch its inevitable that i have to use konsole and so far its not that bad, yet.

I’m just wondering for the long term, should i just change distro? or i should just powertrough arch and see where it goes.

thank you for your time.

  • pyssla@quokk.auEnglish
    71·
    12 hours ago

    They are extremely limiting

    Assuming you’re referring to Fedora Atomic, your statement is extremely exaggerated. Out of the top of my head, the current limitations are iffy akmods and UKI/systemd-boot. The latter of which is being worked on currently and might arrive rather sooner than later. Neither of which I’d assume 95% of Linux users ever engage with anyways…

    add multiple complications to otherwise simple tasks

    I feel like you don’t know what you’re talking about. Please be explicit; which tasks are made more complicated on Fedora Atomic?

    the padded cell of immutability means you can’t really fuck around and learn how traditional Linux systems work

    It’s true that you aren’t supposed to “fuck” around (most of) /usr during runtime. Furthermore, I agree that the existing ways to circumvent/bypass this leave much to be desired. But, again, most peeps use perfectly fine systems without ever feeling the need to tinker with /usr… And if you absolutely must…, well…, Fedora Atomic doesn’t actually stop you. It just wants you to adhere to its ways of achieving it. Making it more of a paradigm shift, rather than outright limiting the user.

    If your criticism basically boils down to “I can’t make use of my preconceived notion on how Linux works.”, then “Yes.”; that’s exactly the point. Granted, it wouldn’t hurt if Fedora Atomic allowed conventional methods to continue working. But as it’s currently in the middle of a architectural shift (going from rpm-ostree to bootc), I’d argue they’ve got more important things to work on.

    • Fecundpossum@lemmy.worldEnglish
      1·
      12 hours ago

      I would say the greatest limitation would be repos and your ability to build whatever software you want from source. Having access to the AUR allows me access to much wider array of software. Can you run Hyprland and all of its companions like hyprlock, hyprpaper, etc on bazzite? That’s the setup I prefer, and I’m fairly certain it’s not possible in a Fedora based immutable system.

      I don’t want or need guardrails to keep my system running correctly. If you do, or just enjoy the stability, cool. I’m just glad you’re not running windows. I don’t think bazzite is bad. I just don’t think it should be the go to for welcoming newcomers.

      • pyssla@quokk.auEnglish
        6·
        12 hours ago

        Thank you for the quick answer and for providing clarifications!

        I would say the greatest limitation would be repos

        What do you mean? What’s wrong with Fedora’s repos? Apologies if I sound obtuse*.

        and your ability to build whatever software you want from source.

        There’s nothing preventing you from doing this within a container created by Toolbx/Distrobox. I can attest to this. You can even build it natively. While I haven’t personally engaged in building it natively, I can’t imagine it would cause any problems. But please correct me if your experience (or otherwise) is different.

        Can you run Hyprland and all of its companions like hyprlock, hyprpaper, etc on bazzite? That’s the setup I prefer, and I’m fairly certain it’s not possible in a Fedora based immutable system.

        Fam, break your leg. Nothing is stopping you; someone else has already done just that. And you can just piggy-back of their effort. In case you’d like to see other (successful) attempts at making Hyprland work on Fedora Atomic: consider taking a look at wayblue and hyprland-atomic.

        • Fecundpossum@lemmy.worldEnglish
          21·
          12 hours ago

          Huh. Well, today I learned.

          You do sound obtuse, but thanks for the education.

          I still think bazzite is the wrong suggestion for newcomers, and I don’t care if you like my opinion.

          • pyssla@quokk.auEnglish
            31·
            12 hours ago

            You do sound obtuse.

            Hehe :P . Please feel free to clarify what you meant with the repos being limiting (or something). I’m genuinely interested to know. See Edit down below

            I still think bazzite is the wrong suggestion for newcomers

            It’s your absolute prerogative to believe/think/state whatever you wish. However, I don’t think you’ve yet made a convincingly compelling case. You absolutely don’t have to, but if you’ve got more to say on the subject matter, then please do so for the sake of (potentially) enlightening others.

            I don’t care if you like my opinion.

            Good…, I suppose. Neither should you care anyways 😜.

            Edit: I only now noticed that you had edited your previous post. My apologies.

            Having access to the AUR allows me access to much wider array of software.

            Agreed. I also occasionally access stuff from there through my dedicated Arch distrobox. I occasionally make use of my Ubuntu distrobox, or Alpine distrobox as well. Thanks to Distrobox (and similar technologies), it has become an absolutely glorious experience to not be limited by the distro’s repos. Instead, I can make use of whatever repos are out there. Granted; Distrobox is not exclusive to Fedora Atomic, but you’d be hard-pressed to find another distro on which it works as well as it does on uBlue’s offerings.

              • pyssla@quokk.auEnglish
                2·
                11 hours ago

                FWIW, I have edited my previous comment.

                Anyhow, if you wish to disengage, then I’d like to wish you a great day. If not, then I’m (patiently) awaiting your return 🙂.

                • Fecundpossum@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  2·
                  11 hours ago

                  Honestly it sounds like you’ve mastered a completely new kind of operating system, based on Linux but evolving in its own direction, and there’s probably only a handful of people using it at that level. It’s pretty cool to learn more about, so I appreciate what you’ve had to say.

                  I already know and love traditional Linux and don’t see a compelling reason to change, and as I’ve repeated, I don’t think it’s the way to point a newcomer.

                  • pyssla@quokk.auEnglish
                    3·
                    10 hours ago

                    Honestly it sounds like you’ve mastered a completely new kind of operating system, based on Linux but evolving in its own direction

                    Thanks for the compliment 😅. I do think there’s some truth in it being a new kind of Linux-based OS. But it’s not as big of a departure like say NixOS. Heck, I’d argue it’s grounded within a relatively basic premise: What’s the minimal amount of effort required to make our current Linux systems attain desirable qualities like being reprovisionable and anti-hysteresis? The whole bootc-shebang is just leveraging existing container technologies (I’m sure you’re familiar with Docker) to the Linux you run on your computer.

                    and there’s probably only a handful of people using it at that level.

                    If we would (perhaps arbitrarily) choose for “that level” to be “crazy enough to create and run their own image”[1], then it’s true that our numbers are probably only in the order of hundreds. Though, the knowledge required to build your own image is (almost) equivalent to the knowledge one ought to have to create their own OCI image; you know, the very same used for Docker, the container technology that represents a billion dollar industry.

                    It’s pretty cool to learn more about, so I appreciate what you’ve had to say.

                    I appreciate it. I like conversing with you as well 😊!

                    I already know and love traditional Linux and don’t see a compelling reason to change

                    That’s perfectly valid.

                    I don’t think it’s the way to point a newcomer.

                    Please allow me to explain why I differ on this:

                    The beginner has no preconceived notion on how Linux is ‘supposed’ to work. As such, they will adapt to whatever you throw at it. Be it Mint, Arch or Fedora Atomic. Heck, it’s undeniable that out of these, Fedora Atomic works the closest like their phone. Which has undoubtedly become the most recognizable OS for your average Joe.

                    FYI, Fedora Silverblue was my foray into Linux. The first one or two weeks definitely gave me a hard time, but that was over three years ago. If I was able to survive in such a ‘hostile’ environment, then newcomers should have absolutely no trouble getting onboard with the introduction of Bazzite (and the other uBlue images).

                    1. As that’s most likely my biggest Fedora Atomic achievement. ↩︎