It’s like every time there’s a war everybody forgets how fucking long they take. WW2 took six years. The Vietnam War took almost 20 years, same with the Afghanistan War. Anybody expecting anything solid within the next couple years is delusional. Ukraine is in it for the long haul.
That’s because it isn’t really about any particular military objective, it’s about creating business for the war industry.
And Russia expected their little venture to be done in days.
It was never supposed to turn into a real war. They wanted to assassinate Zelenskyy put some Russian plant in as president, annex some more land and call it a night. Obviously Zelenskyy survived and the rest is history.
“No plan survives first contact with the enemy”
“Everyone has a plan 'till they get punched in the mouth."
“We’ll fight til the last Ukrainian!” - libs
There’s a lot of angry liberals replying to your post, so I thought I’d link a great video on how/why the war in Ukraine came to be:
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8&si=gaMRzFwo5JP5RzeD
This channel is leftist but they aren’t communists, as far as I know.
Tldw: This war was completely avoidable. Had the US/NATO kept its promise to not expand eastward none of this would have happened. Even Biden said that 25 years ago. Americans groomed certain Ukrainians for political office, and prevented others from running. There was an opportunity to end the war last year on somewhat decent terms for Ukraine, but Boris Johnson rushed in to stop it from happening, promising massive support. But war exhaustion has caught up and Ukraine is running out of people, and western leaders are already starting to call for the end of the war — except this time it will be on russias terms and Ukraine is going to get fucked. Big western capitalists have had their fingers in this pie because there’s a lot of money to be made in the country. That’s it.
Anyone with two brain cells to rub together knows that Putins invasion was a horrific, imperialist move. Any commie you see protesting the war isn’t doing it because they support Russia (Russia is a capitalist country), they’re doing it because they don’t support NATO. We are often the makers of our own enemies here in the west. Viet Cong, Taliban, ISIS, and Russia were all created or shaped by western (mainly US) policies.
Libs gonna lib man…
Seems like to you being a lib means not falling for badly researched, one-sided videos?
You didn’t watch the video did you? They don’t mention anything that
All you liberals give cons a lot of shit for being bloodthirsty war hawks but you froth at the mouth at the thought of war too. You’ll look at situations like what’s happening in Gabon and Niger, say “wow the French are fucked and they kind of deserve it for what they did to those countries”, and then develop an amazing blind spot for western imperialism in Eastern Europe.
Obviously this war shouldn’t have happened. Obviously Putin is an asshole. Obviously what’s happening in Ukraine needs to be stopped.
We (the west) made our own monster though.
All you liberals give cons
All this my team, your team rhetoric…
Honest question, but how many times a day do you think about events and try to fit them into one of these two categories? At what point do you start using these terms interchangeably for good and evil?
These days, I try to skip posts from people who crossed that line. Left, right or centre. If someone has limited their mental capacity to binary decisions, it’s not worth arguing with them, because the answer to everything will always be “my team”.
“We shouldn’t help the rape victim and they should hope that it’s over quickly. Also, it’s actually not rape, it’s a special sexual operation and they deserved it.” - Tankies
Funny how if you’re against another endless war you’re a tankie and support Putin…
I’m neither a tankie nor I support Putin. But I also don’t support NATO and the Empire.
But just as a note, most “tankies” don’t support Russia and know Putin is a conservative capitalist. I mean he is the direct result of the dismantling of the USSR by internal revisionists (tsarists and capitalists) and the CIA.
But again, it’s the Iraq war all over again. And you libs are doing THE SAME THING. It’s hilarious.
„Libs“ we’re against the Iraq war. It divided the US population and the whole western world. Never listened to American Idiot?
I’m confused. You want us to protest against one sort of imperialism, but not the other?
I think you’re remembering incorrectly bro… After 9/11, if you didn’t support invading any vaguely Muslim country you were a traitor. Fucking libs on TV were cheering for killing Saddam and invading Iraq, dismissing any attempts to question why would that even make sense as weak-spined traitorous behaviour.
Also, how can you say that while you support a never ending war in Ukraine?
Is Russia imperialist? Yes. Is this invasion a tragedy? Yes. Did it happen, and will continue to happen for a long time in good part because of the US? Fuck yes as well.
I don’t support Russia invading or winning the war. I don’t support NATO breaking its promises and meddling in Eastern Europe propping up Nazis.
The US Empire is directly responsible for Putin, in the first place. And it’s now directly responsible for the extreme right in Ukraine.
What anyone who’s actually against war wants is for the US Empire to fall and NATO to be dismantled. For Putin to fall and the Russian people to have freedom again. For the Nazis in Ukraine to not have power anymore.
If you support sending billions in weapons to Ukraine (as fucking debt, Ukraine will be in debt to the US and Europe for centuries…), if you support war games in South Korea, Taiwan, if you complained when Biden left Afghanistan… you’re literally a war hawk.
You blathering fool. I’m not your bro and never will be.
When you see a school bully who fights a smaller kid who doesn’t want to give up his lunch money, what do you do? You are the kind of person shouting at the victim to comply to avoid any further bloodshed, right? You’re fucking filth. I think I even watched a Star Trek episode about your fucking kind, lol.
Just for your information: NATO has nothing to do with this. Other than being a scapegoat of course. Quite the opposite, if Ukraine was part of NATO, this war would never happened. Why do you think Poland and the Chech Rebublic were so eager to join it? NATO is a defense pact. But I know, people like you don’t care. NATO is the big boogie man you need to justify your political views.
And no, I don’t remember incorrectly. The Bush regime was republican. They faked evidence to attack Iraq. The were huge demonstations and turmoil Google the Dixie Chicks, listen to American Idiot. I’m not american. I’m german. We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil” because we didn’t agree with the war. Shut the fuck up.
I was always pretty left leaning. Never liked US-Imperialism since I got 16 and realised Tom Clancy Novels were pretty one-sided. But if supporting ukraine means I’m a Hawk, so be it. All I know is, I don’t want to be on your side!
We were one of the countries who were part of a so called “axis of evil”
Slight correction, no, they didn’t go that far. We’re “Old Europe”.
It was also when they renamed French Fries to Freedom Fries to protest the French being, well, French, as if the French wouldn’t already be constantly doing that. (Meanwhile Belgium was hoping someone would notice them).
Your comment truly reeks of “I’m pretty left leaning” lmao
It is 2023. I am being called a tankie for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
It is 2003. I am being called a Saddam lover for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
It is 1969. I am being called a commie and probably also racial slurs for opposing the escalation of a needless slaughter engineered by the western military industial complex.
Alexa play “Story of my life” by One Direction.
Commie
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There’s a load of things I could say, but they would all be pointless, so I’m going to say this. It would be less depressing if you were actually being paid by the Russians.
EDIT: Which, you know, is not actually out of the question.
“Being against war means you are our enemy!” - the “pacifist”, “anti-war”, liberal.
it’s the Iraq war all over again
Oh so you’re against the invasion after all?
More than you guys it seems. You’re all salivating at the idea of Russians dying and this war never ending.
Putin could stop this war and thus Russians from dying at any minute. He’d just have to give up on imperialism.
I’d be happy if Russia would simply send its soldiers home.
Me too. We take Putin out, return the USSR, and then we dismantle the far-right apparatus in Ukraine as well. We close all US military bases and shut down NATO.
We then impose on the US strict international laws to never have a military, to interfere or invade another nation again, or it’s dismantled and given to all 3rd world countries it fucked over the past 100 years.
And shelling civilians in the Donbas is presumably the equivalent of putting on a nice dress in your metaphor?
Make extremely inappropriate and wrong rape comparison ⇒ Accuse anyone who disagrees of being a rape apologist ⇒ FUCK TANKIES!
Extremely normal and sound logic there, definitely not just vibe-based emotional manipulation.
Ask Prigozhin whether that shelling actually happened. You swallowed Russian propaganda hook, line, and sinker.
OHCHR estimates that between mid-April 2014 and 31 May 2016, at least 9,404 people, of which up to 2,000 are civilians, have been killed as a result of the conflict. The vast majority of civilian casualties, recorded on the territories controlled by the Government of Ukraine and on those controlled by armed groups, were caused by the indiscriminate shelling of residential areas, in violation of the international humanitarian law principle of distinction.
Na better believe Prigozhin, that guy never told a lie or said anything that was totally wrong.
What do you believe your source to say, exactly? That Ukraine shelled indiscriminately? If so, you should read it again.
Yes it says that exactly, unless you think the “armed groups” shelled themselves.
*support
We can hope Putin dies from being an old fuck and Russia gives up
The US is on its last legs though. It badly needed this win. The US falls before Putin dies.
What drugs are you on and where can I get some?
Clearly hasn’t compared the US and Chinese economic data
Lol literally every single line of that post is absolutely nonsense.
The US is on its last legs though.
Lol in what universe? By way metric is the most powerful nation in the world limping along?
It badly needed this win.
If we badly needed a win we wouldn’t be sending 30+ year-old surplus gear. Ukraine would have F-35s instead of the air force trying to pawn off A-10s because we’re retiring them and don’t want to break them down.
The US falls before Putin dies.
Unless he’s a Highlander there’s no fucking chance.
You know what? I never thought I’d say this but I’m with Ukraine on this one.
This whole counter offensive insanity is so militarily nonsensical that it had to have been mounted to please the West with a “win” so that they’d stay in the war. Real Chiang Kai Shek committing the best of the KMT army to Shanghai to impress the Westerners energy.
The West is standing on the sidelines, supplying just enough equipment to keep the embers going and judging the ordinary Ukrainians going to their deaths by their hundreds.
Fuck the clowns in charge in Kiev and fuck the Nazi militias obviously. But at this point the men being sent to the front are old men and boys dragged off the street against their will. Sending them to die to appease the West is fucking sick.
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from the moment they realized Kyiv wouldn’t be lost in a week
Goes back way longer than that, at least to 2014.
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Goes back further, all the way to 1953, project aerodynamic. Also CIA backed
Goes back all the way to 882 AD, founding of Kyivan Rus’. Also CIA backed.
What does the CIA have to do with the founding of the three fraternal slavic peoples?
This got an upvote?
Are you open to proposing your master plan?
Ukraine has been invaded. Are you suggesting they do not fight back?
NATO is not war. No NATO country has been attacked. Engaging against Russia directly would put NATO at war with a nuclear power. I cannot imagine that this is your plan.
Not just “the West”, but everybody is on the sidelines as far as direct engagement goes. Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can. Some to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. Most have imposed crippling sanctions. So. “sidelines” is a bit misleading from that perspective.
Even Russia’s allies are “on the sidelines”. You certainly do not see much overt support from China. They have even maintained ( in fact stepped-up ) diplomatic relation with Ukraine.
Or are you trying to imply that the underlying cause of everything here is something other than Russia’s continued invasion? Everybody could truly go back to the sidelines if Russia just left.
The only other path is for Ukraine to win. Are you supporting that or not?
If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.
Zelenksy tried to surrender to prevent further deaths, and Boris Johnson refused to let that meeting happen because NATO isn’t finished using Ukranians as crash test dummies.
What the fuck is that shit that I just read.
What the fuck kind of a lazy ass response is this?
If your goal is to prevent deaths, surrendering would have been the ideal yeah.
This has literally never been true in any war ever. Foreign occupations rarely tend to be bloodless and I doubt a Russian one would have been an exception. At no point were any of the peace talks about Ukraine’s surrender – only renouncing it’s NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Russian troops, as per:
“In the weeks ahead of Johnson’s April 9 visit, high-level diplomatic talks held in Belarus and Turkey had failed to yield a diplomatic breakthrough, though reports in mid-March indicated that Russian and Ukrainian delegations “made significant progress” toward a 15-point peace deal that would involve Ukraine renouncing its NATO ambitions in exchange for the withdrawal of Moscow’s troops.”
At no point was surrender on the table - that would have likely lead to Zelenksy’s detention and execution in the early days of the invasion.
I don’t think Zelensky was too keen on capitulating to Vladimir Putin’s demands to destroy his country, after sending in GRU hit squads to kill him and his family multiple times at the outset of the war.
Zelenskyy tried to surrender and Boris Johnson stopped him?! Ooooookay… He maaaybe (all “unnamed” sources) expressed an opinion, which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.
To cast that as “Ukraine was stopped from surrendering” is just obscene … and yet another Kremlin talking point.
which the U.K. learnt the hard way, that you cannot negotiate with dictators. There can be no “peace in our time” with dictators hellbent on destruction.
If the UK is convinced that you can’t negotiate with dictators, how does the UK keep entering into arms sales agreements with Saudi Arabia? Do the contracts just appear out of thin air at BAE?
Sigh.
I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries. We had plenty of relations with Russia before they decided to invade Ukraine and they were a dictatorship before. We have plenty of relationships with China now and they are a de facto dictatorship.
The Saudis used their British weapons to bomb Yemen and create one of the worst humanitarian catastrophes in recent memory. The UK sold weapons to Saudi before, during, and after the Saudi involvement in Yemen.
Perhaps Russia should have merely bombed Ukraine to the point of starvation. Then they’d be a good dictatorship that the UK would be happy to carry out business negotiations with.
Don’t be ridiculous
Ukrainians are white
That’s only acceptable when it’s brown, asian, or south american people who’s country you’re destroying.
What’s going on in Yemen is incredibly complicated. I’m not condoning everything Saudi Arabia is doing there, far from it, but to call it out as a good vs evil war is frankly a simpleton view. Saudi is bad there. Everyone is bad there. It’s a huge mess. But I think it’s important to recognise that the Saudis aim is to restore order in a neighbourhood country, to prevent Iranian influence from growing and to suppress violent Islamic fundamentalism.
I am referencing to a dictator that is hellbent on invasion of other countries
Yemen isn’t a country because it isn’t white enough for you
Ironic that you accuse others of reapting Kremlin talking points while vomiting the most generic pro Nato shit
They get their opinions straight from the white house and brussels.
You’re not very smart.
le sigh
Russia and Ukraine may have agreed on a tentative deal to end the war in April, according to a recent piece in Foreign Affairs.
“Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement,” wrote Fiona Hill and Angela Stent. “Russia would withdraw to its position on February 23, when it controlled part of the Donbas region and all of Crimea, and in exchange, Ukraine would promise not to seek NATO membership and instead receive security guarantees from a number of countries.”
The news highlights the impact of former British Prime Minister Boris Johnson’s efforts to stop negotiations, as journalist Branko Marcetic noted on Twitter. The decision to scuttle the deal coincided with Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia for two key reasons: Putin cannot be negotiated with, and the West isn’t ready for the war to end.
Foreign Affairs is a Kremlin propaganda outlet now?
Foreign Affairs is certainly propaganda, just not of the Kremlin variety.
Lol exactly, it’s the last place you’d expect to find anything challenging the U.S. narrative.
Considering there’s people in this thread complaining were spreading Russian propaganda by posting a press release FROM UKRAINE I’m starting to think their accusations may not be entirely in good faith.
“Reportedly” means “others report”.
Johnson’s April visit to Kyiv, during which he reportedly urged Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to break off talks with Russia
Hmm let’s look at the source on that: Ukrainska Pravda, a Ukranian language paper headquartered in Kyiv, owned by a Ukranian investment company also headquartered in Kyiv.
Kremlin propaganda!
Sigh.
You do understand how propaganda works, right? It works by zooming in on molehills until they appear like mountains. So while I wouldn’t rule out that Johnson the Idiot said something unwise to Zelensky government, I also don’t automatically think that it means Zelenski was “forced to not give up”.
Ukraine has plenty of opportunities to win. It could have chosen to chart a more balanced position between the EU and Russia. It could have given the Donbass some independence referenda and just let them go. It could have actually tried to adhere to the numerous Minsk Agreements to deescalate and prevent war. It could have negotiated for peace while the Russians were pulling back after its previously more successful counter offensives.
But each time its leaders ignored the off ramp to peace and pursued delusional maximalist goals, egged on by promises of EU and NATO membership which even Zelensky acknowledged publically were just carrots dangled in front of Ukraine.
Now there’s no pathway to any sort of Ukrainian victory and the most realistic scenarios all involve Ukraine permanently giving up Donbas and Crimea. The only difference between the likely outcome now and just giving them a referendum in 2014 is a couple hundred thousand Ukrainian graves.
I’d respect the EU and NATO more if they had actually followed through with their promises to Ukraine instead of this Charlie Brown football bullshit.
Ukraine has plenty of opportunities to win. It could have chosen to chart a more balanced position between the EU and Russia.
I mean they tried to but they got couped by the US for their troubles.
Give your mother to russians and after that you can propose to give Ukrainian land.
What do you mean by not just the west?
We have almost zero countries on Asia, Africa and Latin America which have sanctioned Russia or sent military aid to Ukraine
This is just related to nato/Europe/global north countries.
Europe is not the whole world
Europe is not the whole world
Shocking
But are they supporting Russia through money or tanks or drones or intelligence? No? Then they’re on the sidelines. Like they said.
Most countries are assisting Ukraine where they can
There sure are a lot of Lemmy bro-gaders and NATO shillbots in this thread. That’s the only explanation for people disagreeing with me.
New drinking game. You take a shot everytime some hexbear pops into another instance and posts any comment that:
- Is positive towards Russia, China, or the DPRK.
- Is negative towards NATO
- Is genocide apologetics, or dismisses human rights violations by current or former communist countries as fake or not something to worry about
Garanteed to kill you before the day is over.
Yeah, take a shot every time one of us dirty commies denies the existence of Saddam’s WMDs. The biggest propaganda machine in history would never lie about it’s rivals.
You hexbears are always so angry. I suggest getting a vibrator, it’ll help you release some of that tension.
We can vibe and hate America at the same time, actually
Not gonna lie, I love that emote.
“You hexbears are always so angry”
You seem super chill tho. Are the brigaders in your walls?
It’s wild that I didn’t even mention brigading, but most of the comments from hexbears are defensive about it. It’s not brigading to comment on posts on other instances, so stop feeling insecure about it. Especially when there are so many other valid reasons people hate you guys.
Yeah my bad, I mistook you for another idiot.
Of course we are defensive about it! Its a tiring accusation.
Yes so much to hate like analysing news, investigating claims and not tolerating bigots. Gets you big mad.I was speaking more along the lines of the endless emotes and troll comments. I don’t think people have a problem with many of the comments that have actual meat to them, even if they vehemently disagree with what’s said, like I often do. The ones posting the same trollface emote fifty times though? That’s assnine and annoying. Then those same users complain that nobody wants to “debate” them. That’s not debate. It’s not even a conversation.
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Not the correct response to say to those who hold the purse strings to your war chest. Especially one particular country whose political tide can turn and drown you.
I wish we would just go ahead and give ATACMs. It would certainly speed things up.
I wish they would just go ahead and negotiate a peace
I wish invaders would just get the hell out. Call it tactical retreat, ceasefire, whatever
Yes that’s usually how wars work, right? You leave and then you negotiate.
If we’re being idealistic then I wish everybody would just put down their arms all over the world and sing kumbaya
Zurely zis wunderwaffe will defeat zose orcs
Most anglophones have a nazi conception of how to win wars because their governments asked the defeated nazis for advice on how to win wars and that ideology was integrated and trickled down like piss onto the masses.
I’m sure whoever manufactures those is excited by that prospect too. But they’ve got to get through all the old stock first. Its a military industrial complex clearning house event
I think that once the F16 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field. I assume we are giving them jdams so they will be capable of striking hundreds of miles into occupied territory.
So 10 years?
I think that once the
HIMARS,BRADLEY,LEOPARD,STORM SHADOW,CLUSTER MUNITIONS, F16 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle fieldfast-forward 6 months
I think that once the F22 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field
I think that once the F35 training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field
I think that once the LGM-30G MINUTEMAN III NUCLEAR ICBM training is completed, it will really change the face of the battle field
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Somewhere in the Pentagon there surely must be a series of rooms isolated for this war. In them intelligence is gathered, counterparts in Ukraine can be in instant contact, resources from both armies are tracked, tactics are formulated, simulations are run. How do I know this? Because this would be too good of a learning opportunity to pass up.
And those folks ain’t talking.
Well that and because its a US proxy war. With Ukrainians being slaughtered to further US goals
Gee…lookee there…an uninformed rant. And what is that goal?
two sentences is hardly a rant and there are plenty of quotes from american officials and armchair generals about how this war is great because it’s degrading “our enemy” without costing american lives.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent. In that there is no US blood is an added advantage. The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule. That’s something that’s happened for a millennium, including the American revolution.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did. As France helped the US during the revolution, the US helps Ukraine.
I believe that degrading the army of one of the US greatest geopolitical world rivals at the cost of roughly 3% of the DoD budget is money well spent.
They’re not gonna let you into the club just because you lick the boot leather. I believe the 100.000s of dead ukrainians are more important than some vague US geopolitical goal.
The Ukrainians are fighting this war for their own purpose, to reject tyrannical rule.
The ukrainians are forcibly conscripted and banned from leaving their country. They do not want to fight.
The US didn’t impose this war, 100,000 Russians invading did
Yeah one day putler just woke up and felt like invading, that’s what happened.
If you think this is such a good war, go volunteer.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want, as could Putin.
Reality is the Russians invaded. They rejected world order.
They rejected world order.
Based.
The Ukrainians could stop this war anytime they want
The Ukrainian government could, the same government that banned every political party that wasn’t sufficiently anti-Russia. And the last time the people got to vote, they elected Zelensky who ran as a peace candidate. So no, the people of Ukraine, the ones being drafted and sent to the front lines, have very little say over whether Ukraine negotiates for peace.
the whole world is sending people to become veterans so they can return with their experience and become trainers.
Good for Kyiv. Those armchair generals should shut up and fight if they think things are going slowly.
Kviv is filled with Nazi losers. The only thing that will be good is when they inevitably capitulate
Pretty telling that the new line being fed to NATO worshippers is ‘don’t say anything critical about our objective failures’. This is, ironically, the same message Goebbels pushed when failures began to mount on the eastern front after Stalingrad and then Kursk. As the Soviet steamroller continued to Berlin, the line in the media was ‘it is unpatriotic to say we are losing’. And then they lost.
HexBear and brigading yet another Ukraine thread with misinformation and Kremlin propaganda, name a more iconic duo.
EDIT: It appears that I’ve triggered the horde.
Are the Hexbear users who are saying Ukraine is being ungrateful repeating Kremlin propaganda or are the Hexbear users who are saying Ukraine has a point repeating Kremlin propaganda?
Is Kremlin propaganda just ontologically what a Hexbear user says?
But I dont see hexbears saying Ukraine is being ungratef… Oh. I see.
:P
I’m referring to the concerning number of users from your instance who seem obsessed with parroting what has been confirmed to be Kremlin propaganda and lies spread through deliberate misinformation campaigns. Obviously, this isn’t all HexBear users, but you guys clearly have a general problem with this kind of stuff.
What are some specific examples of “confirmed Kremlin propaganda” are being posted by Hexbear users in this thread?
They never respond with actual examples.
Edit: Lmao they’ve responded with a post that points out Ukraine has been killing people in the Donbas before the war started and a post that highlights the many offramps to the current conflict
Points out numerous examples, expecting actual good faith engagement.
“LOL! You’re wrong!”
This is why nobody likes you guys and wants to defederate with you. Really great job everyone.
Lol! You’re wrong because…
I think you forgot half of the sentence.
Ceding land to a foreign aggressor is not a viable off-ramp. Get real.
Do you seriously have to ask?
This post wasn’t difficult to find.
Acting as if ending the war is Ukraine’s responsibility, rather than one of the country engaging in a literal invasion.
Anyone who doesn’t take the 2014 referendum with an extreme grain of salt is slotting nicely into Russia’s current playbook.
I seriously don’t understand why so many of you dickride Russia, other than “west bad”. The current Russian government is antithetical to so many of the values you claim to champion.
https://hexbear.net/comment/3865920
Here’s another for the road.
EDIT:
Numerous comments people claiming that the Maidan Revolution was actually a US backed coup, with zero evidence provided outside of Kremlin and state operated mouthpieces of course.
Possibly the most egregious yet: apparently the Bucha massacre was a hoax. Remember all those videos we saw of Russian soldiers gunning down unarmed civilians? Apparently they all must have been doctored, or were actually Ukrainian soldiers dressed up as Russian soldiers gunning down their own people.
One of my close friends is a Ukrainian photographer/videographer who was among the first on the scene after the Russians left Bucha. You’ve very likely seen some of his photos before. I can only imagine the rage he’d feel if he were to read some of the bullshit that these comments are attempting to spread.
Honestly, my opinion of HexBear has reached a new low after this thread. I used to be against defederation, but now I can at least understand why people don’t want to be associated at all with your instance.
EDIT 2: This post was locally removed on HexBear. I think that says enough on its own.
You claim that these are examples of “confirmed Kremlin propaganda”. What sources and/or authorities confirm the opinions contained in these posts as Kremlin propaganda?
spoiler
I seriously don’t understand why so many of you dickride Russia
love how liberals manage to weave in casual homophobia whenever geopolitics comes up, you people make me sick
It’s not because of blind allegiance to Russia or anything like that, people have positions counter to your narrative as the result of actually paying attention to events, as they’ve unfolded, over years.
Impressive how mad you babies get when people don’t swallow the lies you’re peddling, expecting them to be taken as implicitly true or something.
I see this one a lot.
I seriously don’t understand why so many of you dickride Russia, other than “west bad”. The current Russian government is antithetical to so many of the values you claim to champion.
Seriously, who? Who is “dickriding Russia because west bad”? The current state of Russia is the result of the USSR’s undemocratic dissolution and the subsequent shock doctrine, obviously it’s antithetical to our values. Everyone knows that. People aren’t being blinded by “west bad” - because they generally aren’t literal children who can only understand the world in terms of good guys and bad guys. What they’re doing is critically analyzing media and history.
Hate to employ the dreaded whataboutism, but it seems to me this critique applies more to the opposite side. You say people are “Slotting nicely into Russia’s playbook”, “parroting Kremlin propaganda”. On their own, these are empty thought-terminators. You’re not concerned about understanding reality, just about making absolutely sure you’re 100% not on “Russia’s side” of this issue, because they’re the bad guys in this dichotomy.
I seriously don’t understand why so many of you dickride the west, other than “Russia bad”. The current western governments are antithetical to so many of the values you claim to champion.
You guys say that but I’ve never seen a hexbear criticizing Russia or their side of the story, only accept it as gospel. You say you don’t do that but then blindly accept their time line for the Bucha massacre or pretend their reasons for attacking a sovereign nation are real or ignore a bunch of irregularities in their 2014 referendum voting. Russia leaving is apparently never an option when they talk about possible solutions, only Ukraine giving up territory. You say the world isn’t only good guys and bad guys but because when the things you guys say are actually analyzed, it’s obvious that it’s a lie. The west is bad, everyone else is less bad. Therefore in any thread with Ukraine, because the west is on their side, they are the bad guys. Even though Russia also has a corruption problem and Nazi problem and has a history of invading their numbers for decades. But they have the bigger military, so I guess all their neighbors have to give up their best territory to Russia for free and their citizens shouldn’t expect to do anything about it and the the rest of the world has to let them.
Meanwhile, many of the people who criticize Russia in this attack don’t dickride the West at all and hate plenty of things about it and will say it in the same thread or tons of others. Like they should definitely decide whether they’ll fully support Ukraine or not, but we all know that to do that they’d have to get more support from their voters, which is often more difficult said than done, especially since Ukraine isn’t actually in NATO.
Russia leaving is apparently never an option when they talk about possible solutions
Yes… it isn’t. Thats how reality works. Russia isn’t going to just up and leave. They aren’t going to have thousands of their own people killed and then just… nothing. They have goals, they want to meet them, and if not then at least get somewhat of a victory. The people in Russia aren’t going to like “oh, we just left”. I don’t fucking understand how people can say “the war ends when russia [just up and leaves]”. This isn’t fantasy land, that isn’t how it works. Russia will leave, if Ukraine negotiates a peace with them. If Russia wants land then UK has to negotiate for that not to happen.
parroting what has been confirmed to be Kremlin propaganda
Ah yes, Kremlin propaganda that is being spread around by… THE UKRAINIAN GOVERNMENT!
💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀💀
Welcome to federation, enjoy your stayIt’s the second post on our /all/ page?
You’ve all got to get used to the way federation works. Because everyone is federated with different instances the /all/ page is different for different instances. This means that when a thread reaches /all/ on a specific instance you will get a lot of their users showing up at the same time. This is true of all the large instances, lemm.ee and lemmy.ml pour into our threads all at once when they reach the top of their feeds, but it’s different for every site so you get this outcome where a lot happens all at once.
So basically this is going to cause a world War of social media echo chambers
It’s pretty much exactly the opposite of echo chambers. Which is why these threads are usually full of shellshocked libs
Echo chamber is when you encounter people that disagree with you
It’s funny seeing the replies to your comment crying about “not brigading” but then the vast majority of the comments in this post come from hexbear users commenting tankie shit
It’s almost as if they completely lack self-awareness.
It’s almost as if
bot detected, report sent
Lack of self awareness = when something is on our /all/ page ???
And why aren’t you responding to anything? So much for being a socialist, you have zero engagement with anything other than liberal beliefs and do absolutely nothing to defend your position or challenge yourself.
Lol, I’ve responded to plenty. Do you seriously expect me to respond to each of the 100+ comments that have been left by HexBear users? It’s not like any of you are capable of changing your mind about anything. Waste of time.
Yes? What do you think challenging yourself is?
Answer my points on your nationalist brainworms being completely at odds with any assessment of yourself as “socialist” at the very least.
Lol, chill TF out. I have much better things to do than spend hours arguing with weirdos on Lemmy.
And again, all I have done is said that I support Ukraine. I also happen to be a socialist. Why is that so hard for you to wrap your head around?
I have much better things to do than spend hours arguing with weirdos on Lemmy.
Don’t lie, weirdo
And again, all I have done is said that I support Ukraine. I also happen to be a socialist. Why is that so hard for you to wrap your head around?
Because you don’t support the people, you support the bourgeois state and your position boils down to “I am willing to kill hundreds of thousands of people to protect it.”
This is not socialist ideology. This is first and foremost nationalism, which variant of it I am as yet uncertain as you’ve said nothing about what your “socialism” entails. I am unable to assess whether you’re a nazi or a plain old liberal that pretends to be a socialist by saying you like welfare while still completely and totally supporting capitalism and liberal institutional design to maintain the bourgeoisie as the ruling class. The german gothic aesthetic you choose for your username certainly doesn’t help the suspicions I have over what you really are though, literally retvrn.
i don’t have time to engage in any actual points with people on Lemmy.I only have time to bait an entire community so i can dissmiss them as weirdos for commenting on my bait post
Libs and calling responding to a post that pops up on our feed “brigading”
Libs and calling claims with citations and references “propaganda”I’m a socialist, but go off king.
Aw, you think you’re not a liberal
So I’m not a true socialist unless I support Putin’s war of aggression. Got it.
you don’t really have to support Putin per se, many of us including myself would feel glee watching him be put up against a wall by communist revolutionaries, but supporting NATO is a pretty big dealbreaker given NATO’s imperialist and fascist history. e.g. Several Nazi German officials being put into NATO’s government. Gladio and funding of fascist stay-behind groups in the event of Soviet invasion. Yugoslavia. Libya. I certainly want NATO to be destroyed, hopefully from within rather than without to prevent nuclear war, and unfortunately for us, the reactionary state of Russia seems to be the best bet to maybe have that eventually occur.
also, stop calling things “wars of aggression” unless you’re going to call everything a war of aggression, my god. what an annoying thought-terminating cliche.
No, you arent. You are repeating imperialist talking points
Again, all I said was I support Ukraine and call out deliberate disinformation. You guys seriously need to work on your reading comprehension.
You support a Nazi country that works with imperialists. You aren’t a socialist, but nothing more than a Fox News watching liberal
Couldn’t resist that misgendering urge huh?
‘Brigading is when you federate and then use the federation feature. I am very smart.’
Awww, another alt-right nut is upset their Nazi country is not just Nazis, but Nazi loosers
Keep throwing out baseless accusations. That’s always the smartest thing to do when you’re wrong.
You defend Nazi countries. Your reading comprehension is terrible
Ah yes, famous Kremlin propaganda as reported by mainstream western media.
Did I read the same article as everyone else? I don’t get where “failed offensive” is coming from. It was western media that created the impression of an impending counter-offensive that would all but end the war, not anything from Ukraine’s armed forces as far as I know.
Since launching a much-vaunted counteroffensive using many billions of dollars of Western military equipment, Ukraine has recaptured more than a dozen villages but has yet to penetrate Russia’s main defences," … NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg told CNN that Ukrainian commanders deserved the benefit of the doubt. 'Ukrainians have exceeded expectations again and again," he said. “We need to trust them. We advise, we help, we support. But… it is the Ukrainians that have to make those decisions.”
This doesn’t sound like a “failed” offensive to me. The “much-vaunted” part came from the West, not Ukraine. It sounds to me like western officials got themselves psyched up based on nothing and are now whining about it. So like, yeah, critics of the slow counteroffensive, shut up. You sound as ridiculous as the people who acted like Kyiv would be taken by March 2022.
Respectfuly, it is painful to read shit like this from uninformed people.
Here try googling this “Ukraine counter offensive goal crimea before:2023-07-01”(without quotes), just 3 random examples.
Zelensky signaled Ukraine’s counteroffensive against Russia is underway. Here’s what to expect
In terms of its goals, Kyiv has consistently said that it wants to recapture all of the territory controlled by Russia. In an address earlier this year Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky said that included Crimea.
“It is not an intention, it is our land. Crimea is our sea and our mountains,” Zelensky said.
Ukraine ‘ready’ to talk to Russia on Crimea if counteroffensive succeeds lol lmao
Ukraine’s counteroffensive: Goals, opportunities, risks
In September 2022, in his only programmatic paper so far, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of Ukraine Lieutenant General Valeriy Zaluzhnyi offered only a rough sketch of how a Ukrainian counteroffensive might look. In the paper, he spoke of “several resolute, ideally simultaneous counterattacks.” One strategically crucial target Zaluzhnyi mentioned was the Crimean peninsula, which Russia illegally annexed in 2014. In Kyiv, all agree this is the main direction Ukraine should focus its efforts. But they are also expecting surprises and deceptive maneuvers. Many, however, doubt Ukraine has enough equipment and fighting power to regain the peninsula.
Even western media tried to downplay it casting doubt from the beginning but the point I highlight is undeniably the planned goal was not achieved and it wont be achieved. Everyone would call that a failure.
But even the fucking Nazis can’t agree on their own narrative and they’re just coping now
Ukraine counteroffensive creeps ahead, measured in blood exactly 2 months ago, July 1st 2023
Last week, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy said the counteroffensive was “slower than desired”, without getting too specific. Ukraine says it has recaptured a cluster of villages in operations that liberated 130 square km (50 square miles) in the south, but this is a small percentage of the total territory held by Russia.
Go tell Zelensky to shut the fuck up, oh wait.
Who are “the fucking Nazis” in your comment?
Who are “the fucking Nazis” in your comment?
Probably the Ukrainian government:
The comment threads here are weird. Who, in their right mind, would ever support a country like Russia? It’s mind blowing.
Go back to your Fox News, conservative ass
It’s not supporting Russia to be critical of one-sided narratives or to call for peace for the sake of minimizing loss of life.
Russia is welcome to GTFO at any time.
The war was already going on before Russia sent troops in.
Right, Ukraine was fighting corruption. Russia entered on the side of… corruption.
“Fighting corruption” is an interesting way to describe sustained artillery bombardments of civilian targets.
Fighting this corruption:
Hoo boy wait til you see what Zelenskyy was up to.
I’m not sure what that has to do with shelling cities, are you suggesting he was hiding in one of the buildings or what?
A compromise now is bad for russia, russia basically has to be able to extort Western Europe to not to be crippled for decades. Germany is apparently working to that end now.
It’s so fucking funny when the geopolitics understanders who have been drip-fed NATO propaganda state the clear opposite of reality and think they made an insightful comment.
Russia has all but won the military conflict, as has been made clear by this utter failure of a “counteroffensive.” Russia is doing better economically than before the SMO, despite the supposed economic wunderwaffen sanctions that only backfired and hurt NATO countries. Russia has only gained support by most of the rest of the world and has showed the global south that the US/NATO are indeed paper tigers. Russia has all the leverage now. So yes, for Russia to compromise right now would be bad for them because they don’t need to compromise, they can keep going as they have been and eventually have their demands met, or Ukraine/NATO can recognize they’ve lost and make a bid for peace by acquiescing to Russia’s demands before more lives are needlessly lost.
Ukraine on the other hand will be crippled for decades regardless of how things pan out. Ukraine is now deeply indebted to Western countries, has already had all national assets sold off, has had a major chunk of its working-age population killed or maimed, and is beholden to a fascist, nazi-worshipping government.
As for Germany, yeah they have been working to the end of hobbling themselves for decades too by allowing their remaining industrial capacity to be completely gutted, kowtowing to their US masters that bombed their infrastructure to prevent them ever again getting oil from ‘The Bad Country,’ they have irreparably removed nuclear power as an option even as they’re facing an impending energy crisis (in large part because of aforementioned no-oil-from-bad-country), and are right now also sliding towards right wing populism.
So you’d want peace by Ukraine giving up its territory?
How about peace talks that involve Russia giving back all Ukrainian lands (including Crimea) and pulling all troops out.
Why stop there, how about demanding Russia provide every Ukrainian with a talking unicorn buddy?
I live in reality and when I say I want peace it means I believe in negotiating based on realistic expectations.
Shouldn’t the people of Crimea get to decide whether they want to live under Kyiv’s rule?
You mean the Russians that Russia settled there? Curious what you think about the Uighurs getting to break away a country from China.
Crimea was annexed with zero shots fired. Maybe Ukraine should respect the voices of the people living in eastern ukraine.
Ohh won’t someone think of the poor invading war criminals!
Ukrainians are dying too, including ones drafted against their will. Maybe you should fight in their place before asking them to die on your behalf.
Hexbear.net is a Russian nationalist instance… They’ve grown up under Putin’s cencorship and state media brainwashing.
Lmao new tagline dropped.
No one on hexbear supports Russia, it’s a neoliberal hellscape that’s somehow even worse than the us on LGBTQ rights. We just dont uncritically consume state department propaganda.
Tankies.
You rang?
Tankies.
I am very smart
Imagine being proud of a t34. Oof
Your username is literally stuka. Also, remember when Germany had their asses destroyed by the red army? That was funny.
Haha, you think I’m gonna defend nazis? Nah, they were worse than the soviets, but not by much. You tankied are about equivalent to neo nazis in my book
You named yourself after a Nazi dive bomber.
Deride us as woke next.
Why would anyone do that? Wokeness is rad and cool, while tankies love to do fascist apologia, which is highly unwoke
Oh look, calling communists fascists
Surely people who do that aren’t supportive of double genocide theory, which Jewish holocaust scholars condemn as carrying water for nazism.
Every time I criticize tankies they:
- Lie about what I said
- Pretend I’m talking about all communists. If I wanted to do so, I would use the term “communists”. But I don’t see a reason to attack the group I myself belong to
- Try to “no U” with irrelevant insinuations
Oh, which successful communists are you talking about?
Also, double genocide theory being holocaust trivialization still applies as it refers to calling the USSR fascist, if you think it is an irrelevant insuniation take it up with the Jewish holocaust scholars.
As I said to the person below, learn reading comprehension or fuck off. I don’t want to engage in a conversation when I’m repeatedly being gaslit on what I said.
Projection,Liberals have always supported nazis against “tankies”
“My terminally online movement is not full of fascists and useful idiots parroting fascist propaganda because of, uhm, history” Yes, tell me again about the freikorps while every day I see another hazoid being besties with Nazis, or being a fascist themselves.
Love how you call me terminally online while your argument for why i am a facist because of some random Haz fan. Also History is irrelevant now?
“Sure Liberals have supported facists everytime but have you considerd Haz”
“Tankies” fought alongside every anti colonial moments from Angola to Vietnam.
While Liberals were to busy supporting far right shitholes like Chile Isreal South Vietnam South Korea
I don’t know if you’re a fascist, I’m currently not interested enough to go checking.
how you call me terminally online
Because you’re on Lemmy defending legacy of a pejorative identifier when confronted with the fact that the modern online tankie community has produced a number of fascist-aligned notable persons over the last years, and keeps spreading and regurgitating fascist propaganda because of the common alignment against the West.
The history is important. In this conversation, history is irrelevant. Stop making it about your honor
Non-sequitur, I have nothing to reply to
Literally a direct reply to the exact thing you said
Please learn reading comprehension
Tankies claim to not be supporting Russia but only point out issues with Ukraine and believe every bit of info that comes out of Russia.
Hexbear never criticizes Russia except for all the times we criticize Russia https://hexbear.net/post/278334
Get out of your bubble. The majority of the world supports Russia. It’s an uncommon view in Europe/USA, but common everywhere else.
Also, being anti NATO expansion doesn’t mean you support Russia. That is a reductive world view.
Regardless of how many despots find Putin’s approach appealing, it remains fundamentally wrong.
Who said anything about despots? These are opinions of people, not rulers. Citizens of Africa, Asia, South America have suffered under US hegemony, so they view the Russian State different than you do.
The world isn’t as simple as Russia bad, US good.
O rly? Because I thought things were simple. I, like everyone who isn’t already fully on team hexbear, am an idiot. Please cite your sources.
I, like everyone who isn’t already fully on team hexbear, am an idiot
did they fix the emoji problem yet?
FREUDIAN SLIP
Please cite your sources.
What a surprise, a childish dipshit.
All you’re doing is insulting people. This behavior is why
is a necessity.You sure are
No shit. Western training and equipment is not fit for purpose. Acting as a colonial cop by bombing with impunity ≠ attacking the strongest defensive lines of the 21st century. All their wunderwaffe just gets blown up by mines or drones.
Cannot wait to see how well this comment ages. All the Hexabear stuff is just comedy gold in the long run. Thank you for spending your life force creating it.
Lmao 4 months in and this comment already didn’t age very well, with even outlets like NYT starting to report the truth about Ukraine’s offensives going terribly.
Also, I wouldn’t call thousands of people dying for meaningless western imperialism/NATO expansion “comedy gold”
Thousands of dead for no good reason is “comedy gold”?
Yeah, Ukraine is really going to retake those two oblasts and Crimea. It will all be worth all the hundreds of thousands of lives thrown into the meatgrinder instead of honoring two ceasefires or negotiating a new ceasefire when that happens.
Real Hitler in his bunker energy, except instead of Hitler youre a nazi in some other country not directly involved coping about how Germany can still win.
Go back to your Fox News
Haters gonna hate. Still though, they’ll need to be cordial if some of these critics are also paying Ukrainian bills. Being rude is the fast track to falling out of favor with foriegn taxpayers.
They’re tired and weary from the onslaught of war fringe to safe their country from Putins aggression. Any dig at their progress is a dig at morale that spreads not only through the ranks, but also to the general public. There is a time for constructive criticism, but that should be done in private with actual solutions offered by those criticizing. I understand their needs to be some decorum but you can’t blame them for what I would consider a mild retort as their countrymen die trying to retake their land everyday.
Yeah, but like, they are their worst countrymen. Nazis and such. No one in the war stands to win anything. They will still pay their landlords and the corrupt banks for the right to live in now freshly burned down houses. Wages will stay super low, the wartime reduction becoming a reconstruction reduction whenever it ends. Anyone from Ukraine who is able to escape the nazis ought to defect to Russia where they would be taken care of a little better.
Have you seen how Israel conducts diplomacy with the US?
Well Zelensky did say that he was inspired by Israel and wanted to model Ukraine to be like Israel.
By slaughtering innocent minorities and stealing their land?
Yeah considering that’s what they were doing in Donbass
Even Prigozhin said that the supposed genocide in Donbas is 100% a Russian propaganda fabrication. Stop parroting that bullshit.
So you agree with fascist mercenaries? Cool to know.
I also think cake tastes good which aligns me straight with Hitler.
Nobody said there was a genocide as far as I know, but there were many ethnic cleansing attempts.
On the contrary calling Russia activities “genocide” was very common. Programmed morons.
Ethnic cleansing of Russian speakers by what, a Russian-speaking army?
Stop, just please, stop.
What are you trying to say?
I want this war to stop.
It’ll stop when Russia leaves.
Edit: anyone who supports Russia is a fascist. Follow your Leader.
And if Ukraine can’t win militarily (which they clearly can’t), how does that happen?
Imagine thinking Russia will win with 0 proof. How does daddy Putin’s boot taste?
Youre in a thread of an article about the failed Ukrainian counteroffensive. I will now imply you are having sexual relations with a man as a negative thing.
Do you think it is realistic that Russia will unilaterally pull out? The war will end when Russia leaves, but Russia isn’t going to leave until they are pushed out, negotiations are had, or Ukraine is destroyed. The first possibility is becoming increasingly more unlikely, and the last is something that nobody should want
That leaves negotiations. I think Ukraine should come to the table while they still have some leverage, which is decreasing every week that they throw their men into the meat grinder without meaningful gains.
It doesn’t leave only negotiations. Russia tried for 10+ years in Afghanistan. The US the same, there and in Vietnam. There is such as giving up and going home. That’s the “win” a small state can inflict on a large one. I don’t think that’s where Ukraine and Russia is headed, but there’s a quick for Ukraine and a slow “win” for Ukraine.
So in your mind there’s no situation where ukraine doesn’t win this war?
For sure there’s a real risk Ukraine isn’t winning this war. But there’s never been a war where there’s absolute certainty one side will win, until we get to the “downfall” times.
Go back to your Fox News with that bullshit
