The Keystone XL pipeline was delayed by Obama in response to the physical altercations that were happening to prevent it. He didn’t do that because we voted for him, he did it because we were willing to fight. More to the point, though, the Ds didn’t actually come up with a way to stop it from happening. They delayed it using the office of the president, which immediately created the opportunity for Trump. Solving this with presidential action is exactly the sort of performative bullshit the Ds are great at. While Obama blocked the permit for the Keystone XL, he also drove the single largest expansion of fossil fuel production the US has ever seen under a single president.
You’re intentionally missing the point here. You say fighting closes pipelines, not voting, but if Trump won in 2020 the pipeline would have gone through, because no amount of fighting would have got him to change his mind, but it did for Biden. So voting does, undeniably, make a difference.
The fact that you don’t know what a cop city is makes you woefully under equipped for this part of the conversation m
And there’s that classic smugness you people live and breathe for.
And as usually instead of just explaining what you mean by this random obscure bit of terminology that no one else uses, you just use it as a chance to jerk yourself off. This is exactly what I mean I say you guys only care about your own moral superiority and not about actually advancing the causes you pretend to believe in.
Like I try and look up what you mean, but the only reference to cop cities is just a training campus for cops in Atlanta.
Only because there were riots and radical disobedience
And because people voted. If the pro civil rights types just said “both sides are the same, so I’m not going to vote for segregation” and didn’t vote, then republicans would have won and we wouldnt have got the civil rights act at all.
This is what you guys don’t seem to understand. You need both political activism AND voting to make a difference, you can’t just rely on one or the other. When you don’t vote you effectively taking your hands off the reigns and letting everyone else steer where they want.
If you want politicians to make the changes you want, then you have to actually vote, because the pro Palestine people vote, the anti abortion types vote, the homophobes, transohobes and sexists vote. So politicians can either push policy for those people to win their votes or they can push policy for people like you who don’t vote and gain nothing for it.
I’ll ignore your self-victimization about your own ignorance and just go after the voting thing.
Again, women’s suffrage is the example that shows you’re wrong. They literally couldn’t vote and still got what they needed because of what you call “activism”. Except it was specifically radical activism. They spent decades lobbying politicians and letter writing and protesting acceptably and it go them nowhere. They broke the law, they ended up prison, they went on hunger strikes, they surrounded the white house. They got the ballot. Not by voting. By fighting.
So when we look at the civil rights movement, we see that Nixon was ALSO forced to concede policy positions and abandon his conservative positions. So clearly it’s not the case that voting in Ds is the only way. Meanwhile, FDR the democrat refused any structural civil rights concessions and refused to entertain a federal anti-lynching bill and JFK the Democrat also avoided making any major concessions arguing that it would harm the Democrats in the South.
So as we see, the party in charge doesn’t fucking matter, what matters is how forcefully you can make your case. This is known as “interest convergence”. Until you can make meeting your demands less risky than ignoring your demands, nothing will happen. Republican and Democrat alike work this way. You have to force them.
It’s like trying to build muscle by studying math. Will studying math help you when you need to track your progress and understand angles and pulleys? Yes. But studying math isn’t going to build muscle. Nothing is stopping me from going to the gym and also studying math, but studying math isn’t actually the thing that will build muscle.
Voting isn’t solving any of our problems. Can it help a little bit with some of them? Maybe. But we need to be honest about what it will solve.
You’re intentionally missing the point here. You say fighting closes pipelines, not voting, but if Trump won in 2020 the pipeline would have gone through, because no amount of fighting would have got him to change his mind, but it did for Biden. So voting does, undeniably, make a difference.
And there’s that classic smugness you people live and breathe for.
And as usually instead of just explaining what you mean by this random obscure bit of terminology that no one else uses, you just use it as a chance to jerk yourself off. This is exactly what I mean I say you guys only care about your own moral superiority and not about actually advancing the causes you pretend to believe in.
Like I try and look up what you mean, but the only reference to cop cities is just a training campus for cops in Atlanta.
And because people voted. If the pro civil rights types just said “both sides are the same, so I’m not going to vote for segregation” and didn’t vote, then republicans would have won and we wouldnt have got the civil rights act at all.
This is what you guys don’t seem to understand. You need both political activism AND voting to make a difference, you can’t just rely on one or the other. When you don’t vote you effectively taking your hands off the reigns and letting everyone else steer where they want.
If you want politicians to make the changes you want, then you have to actually vote, because the pro Palestine people vote, the anti abortion types vote, the homophobes, transohobes and sexists vote. So politicians can either push policy for those people to win their votes or they can push policy for people like you who don’t vote and gain nothing for it.
I’ll ignore your self-victimization about your own ignorance and just go after the voting thing.
Again, women’s suffrage is the example that shows you’re wrong. They literally couldn’t vote and still got what they needed because of what you call “activism”. Except it was specifically radical activism. They spent decades lobbying politicians and letter writing and protesting acceptably and it go them nowhere. They broke the law, they ended up prison, they went on hunger strikes, they surrounded the white house. They got the ballot. Not by voting. By fighting.
So when we look at the civil rights movement, we see that Nixon was ALSO forced to concede policy positions and abandon his conservative positions. So clearly it’s not the case that voting in Ds is the only way. Meanwhile, FDR the democrat refused any structural civil rights concessions and refused to entertain a federal anti-lynching bill and JFK the Democrat also avoided making any major concessions arguing that it would harm the Democrats in the South.
So as we see, the party in charge doesn’t fucking matter, what matters is how forcefully you can make your case. This is known as “interest convergence”. Until you can make meeting your demands less risky than ignoring your demands, nothing will happen. Republican and Democrat alike work this way. You have to force them.
Again your intentionally missing the point and pushing the false dichotomy that’s it’s either voting or protesting/fighting.
You can and should do both. And nothing you’re arguing is a good point against voting.
It’s like trying to build muscle by studying math. Will studying math help you when you need to track your progress and understand angles and pulleys? Yes. But studying math isn’t going to build muscle. Nothing is stopping me from going to the gym and also studying math, but studying math isn’t actually the thing that will build muscle.
Voting isn’t solving any of our problems. Can it help a little bit with some of them? Maybe. But we need to be honest about what it will solve.