Ten Chinese air force aircraft entered Taiwan’s air defence zone . . . Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
For those unfamiliar with the Air Defense Identification Zone:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Defense_Identification_Zone_(Taiwan)
Not only does it include a lot of water that isn’t part of the Strait, right off of China’s coast, it also includes a portion of Mainland China a few times larger than Taiwan itself.
People like to talk like China is flying jets over Taipei City, but you can fly a plane from one city in Mainland China to another, only passing over land, and be in this zone. Mind you, I don’t think Taiwan having this zone is bad – countries generally should be aware of air traffic nearby – but this is part of a long history of alarmist headlines by western media regarding what is often very uninteresting air traffic in the PRC.
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now. You obviously didn’t read the article - “Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.”
In international relations, militaries have defined and at times unspoken rules of engagement. This was NOT routine flight over mainland China that you are making out to be, but was a clear breach of said protocols. Thus Taiwan sent its fighter jets to observe the Chinese military aircraft.
Everyone who disagrees with me must be a bot.
I bet your response will contain one of more of the following: Winnie the Pooh, social credit, comrade, Uyghurs. Yet you call others bots, lmao.
Uyghurs are experiencing a genocide in China and you think it’s spamming to bring it up?
Did you hear that on Fox News?
I can’t believe people are still trying to peddle this conspiracy theory in year 2023.
So Chinese bots are on lemmy too now.
Amazing how comfortable you are being racist on a public forum.
Anyway, people should look at this map and take note of how far Taiwan’s ADIZ extends into Fujian province of mainland China and the open ocean (which is the southwest corner the PRC’s airplanes were supposedly encroaching on). These articles are obviously published to make China seem more aggressive than it really is. Meanwhile the US, with the most powerful navy in the world, parades its warships through the Taiwan strait, which for some reason is not seen as a threat or provocation. Also Taiwan claims the mainland as its own territory. Oh, poor little Taiwan. Lol, get off it.
How is calling out a Chinese bot or Russian bot racist? You are obviously pro-China and you didn’t read the article. That makes you a Chinese bot.
That’s precisely the sort of argument one would expect from a NAFO bot. Hope you earned enough FICO credit points to buy food tonight.
back to reddit with you
Lmao Taiwan existing is bad
Yeah, obviously it’s a glorified puppet state but there’s no point in arguing from that standpoint here. If a country is to exist, it should know about local air traffic, that’s all I’m saying.
It is not to exist. I don’t care about their air borders and I hope China flies wherever they please within Chinese territory like Chinese Taipei
The PRC wants a peaceful reunification, which would not be aided by them continuously flying military jets over the island. I, too, would prefer peaceful reunification, which means some level of cooperation and tolerance is necessary.
It’s going to require might and pressure and gunboat diplomacy, it’s denial and liberalism to pretend colonialists just give up their holdings
A glorified puppet state? What do you mean?
I started writing out a timeline but I don’t know what position you’re asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China so that the US could us the island as a threat against China – as it also attempted to do in Korea when it had more-or-less complete control of the southern half. Taiwan spent about 40 years as a military dictatorship killing tens of thousands of dissidents, native Formosans, and others (this was called the “White Terror”), while their patron the US looked the other way while it pumped resources into the country (for the ruling class, mind you) to use the island as a sweatshop site in the interim. This legacy and its connections to fellow US puppet South Korea and US ally Japan go a long way to explaining its current capacity in manufacturing, which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.
Both Taiwan and SK have made various attempts to assert themselves (with some success in both cases), but with the pathetic diplomatic position of the former and the continued military occupation of the latter by the US, I think “puppet state” is a fair title for them, perhaps as much as Israel, but that’s its own can of worms.
I didn’t really intend on getting into litigating this topic, but I’m happy to discuss it as best I can.
I started writing out a timeline but I don’t know what position you’re asking from so I will say for the sake of brevity that the US kept the KMT from being run out of all of China […] which make up its other value to the US besides geographical position.
Yes, I know about its not-so-glorious past and the White Terror. Thousands of innocent civilians were killed. It was terrible. However, I must respectfully disagree with you on the “puppet state” part. I don’t think that Taiwan is a puppet state. The US sponsoring Taiwan is a thing of the past. Neither is a pathetic diplomatic position a good reason for being a puppet state.
I didn’t see this reply before. The other commenter has it right that the relevance of its pathetic diplomatic position is that it is being propped up by the US/NATO and ultimately depends on them to exist apart from the PRC, which makes it very difficult to oppose them. Incidentally, does the US not sponsor Taiwan? Even just recently there was this, which sure seems like sponsorship to me.
Apparently being sponsored by a foreign state is now counted as being a puppet state?
if US support dropped overnight, reunification with the mainland would become inevitable. it’s a puppet state in the sense that it’s propped up by the might of the US/NATO military.
ehh yeah I guess so
Not only did the US turn a blind eye to the White Terror, but they were positively gleeful about it, as a key target of it was of course not only indigeneous-politics based, but fundamentally anti-communist.
Indeed a basic presupposition of the US providing you such extensive economic support, as a forward base in Asia against communism, is that you crush any opposition to its ‘proper’ functioning as such an economic and military asset. That supposes that you will crush any radical, labor, trade-union, let alone explicitly socialist or communist activity which appears to challenge the state.
Is this that stupid shit where their air defense zone covers a huge chunk of mainland China and they freak out every time China flies Chinese planes over China?
It sure is!
If you actually read the article,
Of those aircraft, the ministry said 10 had either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait, which previously served as an unofficial barrier between the two sides, or entered the southwestern part of Taiwan’s air defence identification zone, or ADIZ.
you would find that 10 aircrafts either crossed the median line of the Taiwan Strait or entered the southwestern part of the ADIZ. Neither of those is “flying over mainland China.”
It’s still international airspace, so it’s a moot point.
It is, but it was clearly done to provoke Taiwan. Calling this a moot point is like saying that laughing at homeless people is fine because it is not illegal.
If you consider China flying planes on its coastline to be unacceptable provocation, I’d love to know what you consider the USA sending ships half way around the world to that same coastline.
China did not just fly planes on its coastline. They crossed the median line, which is an unofficial line that has been dividing the Taiwan Strait for decades. Planes and vessels from China and those from Taiwan would not cross this line to show mutual respect. China is purposely breaking this unwritten convention. See how they usually just barely cross the median line, fly parallel to the line for a bit and head back? Neither are the planes passenger planes, they are fighter jets. This is different from the US sending ships through the Strait. Sending a military ship through the Strait is a provocation to China, but it is much weaker than the direct provocation of the fighter jets crossing the median line.
Taiwan? I think you mean Chinese Taipei.
No, I meant Taiwan. Chinese Taipei is only used in sports games.
you realize that the uptick in frequency of these ‘provocations’ only started in response to the pelosi visit? the incident that had a considerable portion of the entire chinese population howling for the cpc to shoot down the plane and engulf the world in nuclear fire? this is the cpc’s way of appeasing its very large and very rabid nationalist constituency (who are very disappointed that they have not died in a nuclear armageddon, btw) and it is a meme on the chinese internet that despite all of its rhetoric, this pathetic level of ‘not touching you’ fuckery is somehow the lowest that the cpc is willing to stoop to when faced with a de jure violation of its sovereignty.
Broke: Don’t shoot down Pelosi because it would spark a war
Woke: Don’t shoot down Pelosi because it means she can go back to America and speed up their decline
I do realize, but is Pelosi visiting Taiwan Taiwan’s “fault”?
LETS GOOOOOOOOOO LONG LIVE THE PRC WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
ONE CHINA
BEST CHINAWhat the fuck? Why are we endorsing fascist state capitalists?
They’re obviously not fascist, and you’d know that if you were being honest about it and bothered educating yourself both on what fascism is, and on the realities of the PRC.
Also, it’s not “state capitalism”. They do use a market economy in addition to a planned economy, as part of the overall socialist economic system. It’s not a binary either-or; using a market economy doesn’t mean it’s capitalism, and planned economy (intervention) doesn’t mean it’s socialism. They’re structural terms, and relate to purpose: capitalism’s purpose is to maximally extract profit and concentrate wealth; socialism’s purpose is to better the lives (materially and culturally) of its people. China, as a socialist system, takes advantage of the benefits that a market economy can offer (efficiency, competition, resource allocation, demand and pricing signals) but doesn’t use it to extract and concentrate wealth: instead, it uses the net benefits of the market economy to benefit the people. Similarly, a purely planned economy can be very stable and fair but is prone to stagnation and slow progress. By using both systems simultaneously, taking the relative advantages of each, China is able to benefit from efficiency and stability. There’s also no pure free market economy: every capitalist economy has degrees of government intervention (another name for planned economy), especially in times of crises.
Fuck the CCP
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Your account has been flagged for CCP tankie shill-like activity. Please review These Nuts and never forget that Mao killed more people than Stalin and Hitler combined!
Doing Holocaust denial to own the commies.
Your logic is baffling. Hitler killed millions of people in the Holocaust. Mao killed millions more, yet he’s still a folk hero. Where is the disconnect here?
That the only way you can come to the conclusion that Mao “killed more” is if you’re deliberately downplaying how many Hitler killed, aka Holocaust denial.
I may have missed the lesson where numbers aren’t allowed to be bigger than other numbers, so let me rephrase this in a way you might be able to understand. The most conservative estimate of famine deaths during the Great Leap Forward (backward) is greater than the ENTIRE European Jewish population in 1933 by at least six million.
pretending hitler only killed jews is holocaust denial
Meanwhile in the real world https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4331212/
lmao just casual holocaust denial
make fun of a liberal and a fascist cries
life is hard for you NAFO trolls now that you’re off reddit
Oh, yet another debate pervert showing us their best points
so brave
Lots of suspicious comments in this thread. Seems like political astro-turfing has already arrived on Lemmy
Why would anybody astroturf this shitty fucking website lmfao
They are watching, to think otherwise is foolish
I know right! How come there are so, so many people defending China here? I thought they were the minority. Ugh. When I was back on Reddit comments like those would always be downvoted to hell.
Go back to watching your Fox News
gee are you a bot
Go back to watching your Fox News
ok seems like you’re a bot
Seems like you believe Fox News bullshit
I hate fox news
You mean the ones from hexbear aka lemmygrad-lite?
Possibly, I didn’t look where they’re all from, nor do I know what hexbear is or why it’s significant. Sounds like some kind of intra-Lemmy drama which I’m not too interested in. Just noticed a fair amount, lets say…not totally organic, seemingly agenda pushing comments.
Edit: Forget my previous comment. I now see the problem with Hexbear.
agenda pushing is when people have an opinion that doesn’t align with my own
No it’s when there’s mysteriously dozens of comments just magically showing up that are contrary to the vastly popular opinion on only one contentious issue, that serve the best interests of an entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion through fake grassroots posting. Also that entity has a fragile ego and a long history of online manipulation…oh and also coincidentally they are all coming from the same server
entity with the time, resources to try to sway public opinion
why would any foreign political entity waste its valuable english proficient resources on astroturfing an online backwater filled with politically illiterate nobodies? peak liberal solipsism
It would appear that way yes…and as mentioned, they have a history of having extremely thin skin and doing exactly that. So do I expect some group to do the exact thing they have always done? Yes. Yes I do.
I would like to ask you to employ some critical thinking here. Setting aside that the people responding to you have much better English than even a pretty high-level English speaker coming from Mandarin, most of these accounts have months or years of post histories spent almost entirely talking to each other on their previously un-federated instance, including in some cases very harsh arguing, as well as talking about the US on a personal level with intimate detail (and/or whatever other country they say they are from). Do you really believe the most simple answer is that this is all kabuki theater by the CPC to astroturf an obscure collection of websites by wasting a ridiculous amount of resources and the time of highly English-fluent actors? vs just “some people think differently from you”?
If you concede this point, then I would like to ask you to just consider for a moment the implications of the fact that you took the much more absurd and flimsy explanation as though it was just the common-sense explanation. What does that say about the way that you conceptualize the world and what people believe?
And by “have a history of it” you mean "I’ve been told it so many times in the western echo chambers I hang out it that I just implicitly believe it.
Mate, you’ve already had it explained to you where we’re coming from, but apparently the idea of people who genuinely disagree with you is so fucking foreign to you that your redditor brain literally cannot process it, so you continue to descend into paranoid delusion.
maaaaybe we weren’t federated until this week. but nah, paid bots makes more sense.
lol, so your issue is that people with similar opinions happen to be on the same server? truly the most obvious evidence of agenda pushing!
I love how liberals think anybody who’s outside of their echo chamber must be a paid shill. It’s absolutely inconceivable to them that there is a significant amount of people who have contrary opinions.
Vastly popular opinion held by whom?
Anyone with half a brain can see what’s going on. I’m not playing these silly obfuscation games. You’re bad at what you do.
Yes, anyone with half a brain can see that people from a leftist instance are contributing leftist opinions to a space they just federated with. What were you expecting?
Yes, anybody with half a brain can see that you have paranoid delusions.
Hexbear is a large, leftist instance, that just recently federated, and most of us are pro-China. We’re not bots and we’re not getting paid, but we’re not shy about our political views. That’s the reason you’re suddenly seeing a bunch more comments defending China.
Dude what are you talking about I’m paying down my mortgage with the xibux I’m getting from dunking on libs here.
You guys have been getting paid!? The whole time??
I am literally swimming in oceans of renmibi right now scrooge mcduck style thanks to all the libs I have crushed at zaddie xi’s behest.
Plz tell Xi I have not received my payments this month I need it for buying Estrogen please Xi
We have a lot of pro empire shills here after the reddit migration.
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Its time to roll out the tanks
Surprise surprise, Hexbear users came to brigade other instances exactly the way they said they would. Bad actors through and through.
You are brigading as well. This isn’t your instance
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Taiwan, which China claims as its territory, has repeatedly complained of Chinese military activity near it over the past three years, as Beijing steps up pressure to try to force the island to accept its sovereignty.
Taiwan’s defence ministry said that starting at around 9 a.m. (0100 GMT), it detected a total of 25 Chinese aircraft engaging in operations out at sea, including J-10 and J-16 fighters, as well as H-6 bombers.
The ADIZ is a broad area Taiwan monitors and patrols to give its forces more time to respond to threats, and Chinese aircraft have not entered territorial Taiwanese air space.
China staged war games around Taiwan in April after President Tsai Ing-wen returned home from a visit to the United States where she met U.S. House Speaker Kevin McCarthy.
Taiwan Vice President William Lai leaves for the United States this week on his way to Paraguay on what is officially only a transit but which has angered China.
Taiwan’s democratically elected government rejects China’s sovereignty claim and says only the island’s people can decide their future.
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Dumb comment. Taiwan isn’t a country and they certainly aren’t a democracy
lmao hexbear incels trying hard here
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Weird. There’s a lot of anti China stories circulating this week. Like maybe they are trying to influence public opinion.
China does thing
News reports on thing China does
SINOPHOBIA!!!
There’s a big world with a lot of news. Why focus on China?
They’re only a global superpower that is constantly causing problems for everyone around it, no big deal or anything. Definitely not newsworthy at all, no.
There’s a war in Sudan, no big deal.
It’s possible to report on two things at once. In fact Reuters reports on many different things at once
I work for Reuters
okay guys , so since this hole federation stuff your Pro Imperial Wrong Takes comes my way , it must be corrected …
this is Taiwans Air Identification Zone
it is a Bullshit leftover that spans so vast over china that it simply can not be not violated ,…
theirby producing the most wonderfull “Permanent - Saturaton - Propaganda” of China Bad Bakround noise for the Imperial core audience in their Echo Chambers .PS: this is where real Journalist go in the west , when they start beeing critical of non approved subjects.
“Good thing propaganda only ever happens to other people”
How can a country intrude into its own territory? These separatists need to be put in their places.
So let me get this straight, a group of people overwhelmingly wish to separate, and the government tries to prevent them from doing that, and you don’t think that’s imperialism? I bet you don’t feel the same about separatism in Catalonia, Donbas, Kurdistan, or the Zapatistas. Classic tankie logic: imperialism good when done by purported “communists.”
Almost like the reason some of the population is because they stole from the Chinese people and fled to the island when the people fought back. The oppressor doesn’t deserve to get to pick to be independent
And how long ago was that exactly?
1949
Daily reminder that the Taiwan Province is an inalienable part of the People’s Republic of China:
And that this is recognized by the United Nations ever since 1971 after UNGAR 2758.
Source, page 546: https://web.archive.org/web/20230503050030/https://legal.un.org/unjuridicalyearbook/pdfs/english/volumes/2010.pdf
Video of the votes happening: https://invidious.projectsegfau.lt/watch?v=sfOIEjuXFyU
As a french dude, and given our history, I have no choice but to stand against all imperialisms. Claiming a territory against the will of its people is exactly what imperialism is. France has done that for centuries along with most of the european powers of the time. Imperialism is criminal, it is murderous, and profoundly unjust. It is nothing less than colonisation. Just let people live on their own terms.
Learn what imperialism is FFS. Throwing around words you don’t know the meaning of serves no purpose but to make you appear foolish
If you’d like to try being constructive, you can drop the FFS and follow up with reading advice, for instance, or a bit of your own. It doesn’t have to be long winded, it can just be a couple sentences. This is a good habit to make your own, and replace the waving off with.
Imperalism by Lenin as has already been recomended for starters
Never, ever have I thought I’d see the words “台灣是中國神聖不可分割的一部分” in English being used unironically.
So…you thought sharing a common language precluded having differing opinions? That’s kinda astonishing, ngl
To be honest I never thought I’d see those words even in Chinese being used unironically either.
You thought no Chinese people supported the One China Policy? Seriously?
I’m sure a lot do. I just don’t expect to see them in my day-to-day life.
Your day-to-day life…on the massive globally interconnected computer network shared by everyone worldwide who has the means to connect to it? You didn’t expect to see an opinion held by well over 1 billion people on that network, ever?
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Seems like you haven’t met very many people
“well if the UN is saying it”
~lemmygrad, when its useful
Last I checked liberals are all about respecting rules and international law, so we’re just holding you to your own standards here.
I’m not obligated to respect laws when the laws don’t respect human rights. Slavery was legal at once point. The holocaust was legal at one point. Was I ever obligated to respect those laws?
Good thing China has a far better human rights record than the west.
It really doesn’t unless you believe the state media that’s allowed to come out of it. Even then, they publicly reject any lgbt type content.
Calling it “vulgar, immoral and unhealthy content”.
Even going so far as to jail a women for 10 years for producing BL content.
There’s really no reason to believe western oligarch owned media over Chinese state media. Of course, western propagandists rely on people such as yourself being already primed to believe the worst possible things about China making their work pretty easy.
The second article is AnimeNewsNetwork and they link to Chinese owned media.
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Hey! You write those degoogle guides right? Thank you! They are very helpful.
trans comrade reporting for duty, time to make stalin look like a liberal
The Poster’s Internationale unites!
