• 1 Post
  • 155 Comments
Joined 3 years ago
cake
Cake day: June 30th, 2023

help-circle
  • I self-host my own Redlib instance, its basically the only way I interact with Reddit these days. The other day they updated the site to break Redlib and I had to apply a fix someone made with AI to keep it working… later there was a human made fix it just took more time. It’s going to get harder and harder to maintain instances the more they lock down Reddit. But I guess if Nitter is still working people will keep Redlib working. Nitter has long been much more difficult to self-host. Time to start hoarding throw away accounts, I guess.

    I do sometimes wonder if it does more damage in the long run keep the site usable for some people while Reddit enshitifies itself? I wish people would hurry up and migrate here, its only going to get worse.



  • I don’t owe you proof of an anecdote.

    You do if you want to defend the claim you made. We’re going in circles, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. This is like first week of rhetoric 101 stuff here.

    Something clearly felt by the community given the reactions to this post.

    Right, like I already said, it’s a self soothing narrative for liberals, that’s why they buy into your claims even while you’re openly saying you aren’t going to provide evidence for your claims.

    Again none of this is about you, so you cannot defend it, it if about .ml users in my case and maybe others from everyone else.

    Maybe getting a little deeper into will help you to understand the point I’m getting at. I kind of wanted to avoid getting this deep into this because its honestly pretty heavy and complicated and there are a lot of moving parts. I am defending the ml’s position, you just don’t understand the ml position.

    This may seem like a strange place to start but I think if I start with a simplier example you’re primed to understand maybe you’ll see more of what I’m saying.

    The self soothing thing — it’s ideological function is the same thing as MAGA saying immigrants are criminals. Sure you can find examples of immigrants committing crimes, but on average immigrants commit less crimes than native born citizens.

    So why do they buy into this narrative about immigrants being criminals? You could say racism and that is absolutely part of it. But almost more importantly if the immigrants aren’t the problem that means conservatives and republican leaders are a big part of the problem or even more scary maybe capitalism is part of the problem. They can’t accept that, so they scapegoat immigrants. It’s pretty simple psychology to understand in this case.

    To start the parallel the democrats are also part of the problem. But liberals can’t accept that in the same way that conservatives their leaders are part of the problem.

    So what is the failure that liberals can’t accept about their leaders? Well, Biden then later Harris funded the genocide in Gaza, that cost them Michigan, there was no path for the democrats to win the presidency in 2024 without Michigan. It was the same in 2020 and 2016.

    Let’s get into the specifics of why Kamala couldn’t win Michigan. In Dearborn, Michigan there is a large Palestian-sympathetic Arab community. People who literally have family members in Gaza.

    Here’s the meat and potatoes of the point I’m trying to get to. There is nothing you can say to someone who is actively having a genocide committed against their family to get them to vote for the person funding the genocide. Michigan was gone if Biden and later Harris didn’t change on this issue, the election was over before it started.

    The response to this situation was the uncommitted movement. The uncommitted movement —which was largely organized by the Arab community in Dearborn— was uncommitted to vote for the democratic candidate if the candidate didn’t change course on the issue of the genocide in Gaza. They voted ‘uncommitted’ on the 2024 democratic primary ballot, they had an impressive turnout. Definitely enough that Biden/Harris should have taken it seriously.

    The ‘tankie’ response to the uncommitted movement was to have solidarity with the Palestian-Dearborn community and put more pressure on the democratic candidate try to get them to change course. The liberal response was basically to scream VOTE at ‘tankies’ and refuse to engage with the problem, kinda similar to what has happened on this thread.

    If instead the liberals had taken the time to listen to the more complicated and nuanced point ‘tankies’ and put more pressure on Harris, she might changed course and she might be president today. So contrary to the narrative that was implied by your little comment the ‘tankies’ were actually doing more to try to help Harris win than the liberals were. Not necessarily by voting but by putting the pressures on Harris in ways that she needed to get over the finish line.

    Back to the self soothing, it’s an attempt by liberals to wash their hands of their complicity in this genocide, “its not my fault its those “tankies” posting “don’t vote” on social media made Harris loose” they say to themselves. It’s the same scapegoating behavior that conservatives engage in. It’s bullshit.

    I understand this very heavy shit, you probably want to reject everything I’ve said, and you’ll probably find a way to rationalize doing so. But everything I’m saying is true.

    Regardless you’re asserting that everyone has collective hysteria rather than engaging with the possibility that people hold those opinions.

    Seems like a false dichotomy, it seems like its probably both to me. These are deeply held beliefs that many people have very good reason to be hysterical about.


  • I’m not moving the goal post. I litterally repeated what I said in my first (long) post in terms that sound more understanding to your position.

    If anything you’re moving the goalpost by saying your opinion is more complicated than what you origianally posted. Which I have tried to take in good faith.

    At this point, I gotta be honest I’m more flabbergasted by the idea that anyone actually thinks it’s a compelling response to say “no copying and pasting links is hard” to “the burden of proof falls on the person making the claim” than anything else.



  • Eh, I wouldn’t say it ‘evaporates’. These are people who don’t like the job either party has done but certainly think one party has done a much worse job. Which they would never vote for.

    So they’re not going to change parties but they are hungry for a new party (or a significant change in an existing party).

    I’d describe it as a political powder keg waiting to blow if the right forces are applied to it. In a word its discontent, people who’s interests are not being represented by the political process.

    You could say Trump tapped into that discontent a bit by appealing to the ones who think the parties aren’t racist enough against immigrants.

    He didn’t dispense with the energy because the things he said were problems are largely figments of the racists imagination. So now some immigrants are dead or in concentration camps and those racists are no better off.

    DSA is also trying to tap into that energy. Time will tell if they can wield it to become an enduring force in American politics.

    Last time there was a powder keg like this that went off FDR was the one that lit the fuse and he won 4 terms. The establishment hated him so much they passed term limits.

    That’s what it looks like when someone successfully taps into it in a way that actually resolves the material problems in peoples lives.



  • You made a claim that plays into those narratives then refused to back up those claims with any evidence.

    Look, its fine, its easy to fall into reactionary narratives, it can happen to anyone, they can be like a warm blanket at times… its comfortable to tell yourself… “If everyone votes the right way everything will be fine, its the evil leftist tankies ruining everything”… Perhaps you don’t fully even buy into that narrative, but you clearly bought into part of it. Everything won’t be fine even if everyone votes the right way, and more realistically everyone won’t vote the right way no matter how much we argue about it on Lemmy.

    Appreciate you engaging with me today, try to consider my arguments without feeling personally attacked. These narratives are put out there by powerful forces trying to divide us.


  • Great! I believe you when you say you don’t consider yourself a liberal and I respect that. As not a “liberal” I would think you understand how its pretty annoying to constantly see your beliefs being misrepresented on this forum.

    In that spirit I think it’s a pretty low bar to copy and paste a link to your source for why you believe what you say you believe. You’ve written several paragraphs, that’s already much more effort than what I’ve asked.

    Edit: I will add to this whether or not you consider yourself to be a liberal, you are taking the liberal position.



  • Yes, but I don’t know which ones you’re referring to so in order to have a productive conversation I need to know specifically what you’re referring to.

    This is not the first time I’ve seen this conversation play out like this.

    Liberal: Leftists believes crazy thing!

    Leftist: Can you give us examples of “crazy thing”?

    Liberals: No, I cannot.

    Or in the rare instance where the liberal does actually cite a source, the source isn’t saying what the liberal is saying they said.

    I will continue to believing this is self-soothing delusion by liberals until they can provide some evidence for their claims.

    Like, What you’re saying is so grossly untrue you don’t even want to take an opportunity to cherry pick someone saying something not broadly supported by leftists?