Nah, last I checked I thought Russians kidnapping of Ukrainian children was abhorrent which is the subject matter of this post. The constant Palestine supporter “but what about xyz” is nonsensical, all genocides are disgusting and the fact action is being taken even on just one of them is nothing but good news. Dont let perfect be the enemy of good.
“Russia bad and Israel bad” would be the Principled, Humanitarian stance.
“Russia bad” whilst not only these people do not deem Israel bad, but they’re actually sending weapons used to murder civilians in Gaza, is just Propaganda. It’s not a principled stance, it’s like Greenwash but for Humanitarianism: using the words of Humanitarianism on the things were it happens to align with your goals whilst doing the very opposite when it doesn’t.
This kind of performative “Humanitarianism” and “International Rule Of Law” actions (hardly a monopoly of the Brits but, damn, they’re some of the biggest practitioners of the whole thing) heavy on the is what reinforces outside the West the impression that the words of Western leaders are bullshit and cannot be trusted.
This kind of haughty proclamations but only applying some not others, actually weakens the principle of International Rule Of Law and overall makes it less likely that Justice in such affairs actually happens.
The fact that action is being taken on JUST one of them isn’t a good news at all. It means international law is made fun off and weaponized. What legitimacy to judge war crime would you have if you very publically commit warcrime yourself?
The messages it send is that it’s ok to commit genocide as long as you’re aligned with the west.
Do you believe that your messaging helps the people of Palestine? is this the best way you can think of to gather international support for a cause that is dear to you?
I am positive. Your message is not accomplishing the goals that you want. Unless you wanted to further isolate the Palestinian people from the care of the rest of the world, maybe tone down the rhetoric a bit. It’s coming off quite psychotic like someone who would support kidnapping and torturing and raping and you know all the things that they do in Palestine to LGBT people
I believe that a real, strong and fair International Rule Of Law would help Palestine and that the two-weights-two-measures kind of Propaganda used of performative “International Rule Of Law” detracts from it Globally being real, strong and fair.
I don’t think a performative demand for “Justice except if the perps are our mates” from the most hypocrite country leadership around will advance the cause of International Rule Of Law even when it comes to the Russian invasion of Ukraine because it just reinforces the impression outside the West that the “Justice” of the West isn’t really Just or even honest - it’s a great way to (as is it’s only real objective) to get kudos from a certain crowd that abhors what Russia is doing whilst not having a tendency to look beyond the superficial in a skeptical way for even the words one agrees with, but comes with the secondary side effect that people in all those nations out there which are not aligned in this specific subject just become more suspicious of Western words and motivations and hence less likely to cooperate.
Such performative statements for local political gains neither advances the cause of Global Humanitarianism nor the cause of International Rule of Law, probably the opposite.
Such idea would much better be voiced by a different country (say, Spain), not one practicing the very opposite of what it preaches and with quite a long tradition of being double-faced.
If I am a country who have deal with Russia, and then UK comes and say “war crime, genocide … etc” and “you are not allowed to have deal with russia” while at the same time they are providing Israel with weapon and intel that make people fly 20m in the sky and kids walk inhaling cement if they survive looking for the parents, I would ignore the UK and say fuck off.
The funny bit is that I don’t at all disagree with the idea of an international independent special court for the crimes of Russia in Ukraine.
I just think the UK shouldn’t be involved in it in any way form or shape, because for anybody who hasn’t been living in the middle of the British Propaganda environment (or pro-Zionist propaganda like in the US) British Governments are painfully double-faced.
This idea coming from the Spaniards or the Irish would be great and far more likely to be taken seriously by stakeholders worldwide because at least those two can’t be accused of having different standards for different combinations of Genociders and victims.
By making this statement, likely for local political propaganda purposes (both to help shore-up support on their Left for what is a pretty Rightwing New Labour Government and for the usual “See, Britain is an important player in the world!” political performance so common there) the British Government might have just made such a thing less likely to happen rather than more.
See, now that was really well spoken. I can’t argue with any of that. You’re absolutely right. This a compelling arguement I can get behind. That is a much better way to point out the hypocrisy, and voice your frustration. This makes me want to support palestine. The former makes me want to support Isreal. I really hope that the pro-palestine crowd can learn to temper their anger and strengthen their arguments like you just did. Well done. This is one of those internet interactions that left me with a smile.
I confess I had a extra angry knee-jerk reaction since I lived over a decade in the UK and during that time the whole relentless abused of this kind of forked-tongue hypocrisy in local politics really climbed to be one of the things I most detest - it’s a sneaky slimy way of using discourse for personal gain that often indirectly harms those one loudly claims to be defending: a form of sociopathy but not of the violent kind.
Oh I know, we live in a world full of Nazi double-speak. I want to verbally headbutt people too. Not enough time in the day to sort through everyones words and intentions, so it’s easy to make quick judgements. I’ve been pro-palestine and vocal about the conflict for 20 years. I can relate to all the kids who are passionate about it now, because it reminds me of me 20 years ago. I can also see the cause being high-jacked by bad actors. You are clearly not one, but you have to set a good example for the younger kids. Having followed the changing dialogues for over 20 years between all the involved nations, there are good ways to talk about this and bad ways. If we want change we need to change the messaging and focus the energy on meaningful realistic changes.
I don’t know if I can ever forgive the “genocide Joe” crowd who seem to be okay with genocide if trump does it for a hotel.
Why not just throw Britain in your imaginary tribunal as well. Didn’t they place Israel in their territory and start the war 80 fucking years ago. Are you going to try Hamas and Iran for the crimes against humanity too or is that just fine in imagination land?
You need one of those even more for Israel, but the British political elites are active and willing accomplices in that specific Genocide.
One rule for some, another for others…
Hypocrisy is very much the core trait of the British upper classes.
Whataboutism
No because Brits are involved in Israels genocide and can be held accountable.
Britain is not involved in Russia’s invasion nor supporting their war crimes.
Racist child murder supporting hypocrisy.
Nah, last I checked I thought Russians kidnapping of Ukrainian children was abhorrent which is the subject matter of this post. The constant Palestine supporter “but what about xyz” is nonsensical, all genocides are disgusting and the fact action is being taken even on just one of them is nothing but good news. Dont let perfect be the enemy of good.
Look mate
This kind of performative “Humanitarianism” and “International Rule Of Law” actions (hardly a monopoly of the Brits but, damn, they’re some of the biggest practitioners of the whole thing) heavy on the is what reinforces outside the West the impression that the words of Western leaders are bullshit and cannot be trusted.
This kind of haughty proclamations but only applying some not others, actually weakens the principle of International Rule Of Law and overall makes it less likely that Justice in such affairs actually happens.
The fact that action is being taken on JUST one of them isn’t a good news at all. It means international law is made fun off and weaponized. What legitimacy to judge war crime would you have if you very publically commit warcrime yourself?
The messages it send is that it’s ok to commit genocide as long as you’re aligned with the west.
Google what an unhelpful walrus is and do not return here
Do you believe that your messaging helps the people of Palestine? is this the best way you can think of to gather international support for a cause that is dear to you?
I am positive. Your message is not accomplishing the goals that you want. Unless you wanted to further isolate the Palestinian people from the care of the rest of the world, maybe tone down the rhetoric a bit. It’s coming off quite psychotic like someone who would support kidnapping and torturing and raping and you know all the things that they do in Palestine to LGBT people
I believe that a real, strong and fair International Rule Of Law would help Palestine and that the two-weights-two-measures kind of Propaganda used of performative “International Rule Of Law” detracts from it Globally being real, strong and fair.
I don’t think a performative demand for “Justice except if the perps are our mates” from the most hypocrite country leadership around will advance the cause of International Rule Of Law even when it comes to the Russian invasion of Ukraine because it just reinforces the impression outside the West that the “Justice” of the West isn’t really Just or even honest - it’s a great way to (as is it’s only real objective) to get kudos from a certain crowd that abhors what Russia is doing whilst not having a tendency to look beyond the superficial in a skeptical way for even the words one agrees with, but comes with the secondary side effect that people in all those nations out there which are not aligned in this specific subject just become more suspicious of Western words and motivations and hence less likely to cooperate.
Such performative statements for local political gains neither advances the cause of Global Humanitarianism nor the cause of International Rule of Law, probably the opposite.
Such idea would much better be voiced by a different country (say, Spain), not one practicing the very opposite of what it preaches and with quite a long tradition of being double-faced.
If I am a country who have deal with Russia, and then UK comes and say “war crime, genocide … etc” and “you are not allowed to have deal with russia” while at the same time they are providing Israel with weapon and intel that make people fly 20m in the sky and kids walk inhaling cement if they survive looking for the parents, I would ignore the UK and say fuck off.
The funny bit is that I don’t at all disagree with the idea of an international independent special court for the crimes of Russia in Ukraine.
I just think the UK shouldn’t be involved in it in any way form or shape, because for anybody who hasn’t been living in the middle of the British Propaganda environment (or pro-Zionist propaganda like in the US) British Governments are painfully double-faced.
This idea coming from the Spaniards or the Irish would be great and far more likely to be taken seriously by stakeholders worldwide because at least those two can’t be accused of having different standards for different combinations of Genociders and victims.
By making this statement, likely for local political propaganda purposes (both to help shore-up support on their Left for what is a pretty Rightwing New Labour Government and for the usual “See, Britain is an important player in the world!” political performance so common there) the British Government might have just made such a thing less likely to happen rather than more.
See, now that was really well spoken. I can’t argue with any of that. You’re absolutely right. This a compelling arguement I can get behind. That is a much better way to point out the hypocrisy, and voice your frustration. This makes me want to support palestine. The former makes me want to support Isreal. I really hope that the pro-palestine crowd can learn to temper their anger and strengthen their arguments like you just did. Well done. This is one of those internet interactions that left me with a smile.
Thank you.
I confess I had a extra angry knee-jerk reaction since I lived over a decade in the UK and during that time the whole relentless abused of this kind of forked-tongue hypocrisy in local politics really climbed to be one of the things I most detest - it’s a sneaky slimy way of using discourse for personal gain that often indirectly harms those one loudly claims to be defending: a form of sociopathy but not of the violent kind.
Oh I know, we live in a world full of Nazi double-speak. I want to verbally headbutt people too. Not enough time in the day to sort through everyones words and intentions, so it’s easy to make quick judgements. I’ve been pro-palestine and vocal about the conflict for 20 years. I can relate to all the kids who are passionate about it now, because it reminds me of me 20 years ago. I can also see the cause being high-jacked by bad actors. You are clearly not one, but you have to set a good example for the younger kids. Having followed the changing dialogues for over 20 years between all the involved nations, there are good ways to talk about this and bad ways. If we want change we need to change the messaging and focus the energy on meaningful realistic changes.
I don’t know if I can ever forgive the “genocide Joe” crowd who seem to be okay with genocide if trump does it for a hotel.
Ah yea because the israeli bombs are notoriously only killing straights.
Lmao you think people give a shit about homosexuality when entire neighborhoods are getting erased? You might be a sheltered idiot.
Why not just throw Britain in your imaginary tribunal as well. Didn’t they place Israel in their territory and start the war 80 fucking years ago. Are you going to try Hamas and Iran for the crimes against humanity too or is that just fine in imagination land?