- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
- cross-posted to:
- technology@beehaw.org
Ring founder Jamie Siminoff is back at the helm of the surveillance doorbell company, and with him is the surveillance-first-privacy-last approach that made Ring one of the most maligned tech devices. Not only is the company reintroducing new versions of old features which would allow police to request footage directly from Ring users, it is also introducing a new feature that would allow police to request live-st
So, what are people using to get:
Currently using Ring (outside of America) and looking to migrate away. There are some nice other features like distinguishing motion vs people vs vehicles that are nice to have but can live without.
Home assistant + frigate has been serving myself and my family on separate sites for about 2 years. It has definitely kicked my ass, but seeing “privacy friendly” reolink cameras constantly phone home on my firewall assured me it was worth it. Wireguard tunnel in and you have remote access with practically no security concerns*
2nd this configuration. My firewall rules block all external camera traffic and Frigate (once configured) is superb at detecting people without false alerts. All recordings are stored locally. It is disturbing just how much traffic smart devices try to send to China and Amazon, even when not subscribed to cloud services.
Home Assistant makes everything ridiculously flexible and is configured to turn on camera sirens if someone is detected at night or while my alarm system is armed, and disable sirens and alerts when doors have been opened or the alarm has just been turned off. The open Wireguard ports appear closed to scanners so I’m also reasonably comfortable with network security.
Ubiquiti. Cloud gateway max (router + NVR) for $200 with no storage, add your own 2tb nvme, get a ubiquiti doorbell for $300. Little pricy, but simple to setup and all the footage lives locally on the cloud gateway max. No subscription, and you can add more cameras later. The cloud gateway max is an excellent 2.5G router. Slap on a WiFi 7 access point for $200 more and you got yourself a killer home network.
I want the Ubiquiti Doorbell Pro (wired Ethernet) but it’s always sold out. Plus I’ve been hesitant to spend ion a Cloud Gateway or Dream Machine. I just wish I could use my own storage.
I need to just bite the bullet though.
The cloud gateway max lets you use your own storage without getting one of their giant NVRs. I got the wireless doorbell. Initially I kinda regretted not getting the wired one, but once I tuned my WiFi I haven’t had any issues. But definitely go wired if you can.
This is the choice if you want to buy the equipment and it works out of the box. Its cheaper if you want to sort of build your own setup but requires more maintenance and setup.
I have a piezoelectric doorbell.
The bell part plugs directly into a wall socket. The button part is completely wireless and batteryless and is affixed near my front door.
Been working like clockwork for a decade to let me know when someone is at the door and I’m home.
If I’m not home, the postman or delivery driver leaves a note to go to the collection center for my package. If it’s a small package not requiring signature, they just leave it at the door or in the mailbox if it fits. None of that changes with a camera.
Why overcomplicate life.
I use a $40 tp-link video doorbell and it has has all of that.
Reolink Doorbell ( Firewalled from connecting outside LAN) + Frigate (self hosted)
It’s solved tech and there are hundreds of alternatives so you can definitely find something local. I’ve heard Netatmo recommended for Europeans (French, gdpr compliant)
https://www.netatmo.com/en-gb/smart-outdoor-camera
There are many other cameras but most have the same potential to do this sort of shit. Sending video to some server you don’t control, on cameras you don’t control because it’s proprietary, isn’t going to cut it if privacy is your goal.
No, most don’t do it.
What is the incentive to do this sort of stuff?
The best thing is you don’t need any of that. Just install normal doorbell. We all love gadgets but some of them are just not worth it.
Hard agree. What does a video doorbell connected to the internet solve? I’m concerned that people dont trust their neighbors to this extent. Sort of a canary in the coal mine type thing.
I don’t have a doorbell of any kind (the button isn’t even hooked up to anything). My neighbours are jerks but they won’t steal packages or anything like that.
We’re living in a low trust society that used to be a high trust society a few decades ago. I believe all of the problems you see in politics ultimately stem from this. Factionalism is tearing western society apart.
Crime has been dropping for decades, yet news coverage is higher than it’s ever been. The oligarchs know we’re easier to rule if we distrust each other so we don’t work together and figure out who’s actually screwing us over.
It’s not that I don’t trust my neighbors, I don’t trust anyone outside of those I personally know well.
Growing up around people who abuse hard drugs tends to destroy the trust you have in those around you after you have your shit stolen repeatedly. Both my wife and I had shit stolen from closed front porches when we were growing up, so I have cameras that watch the sides of my house. But I also built my system from scratch, so I am not worried about third party snooping/reporting.
Plenty of us have good reasons not to trust those around us. Especially in this day and age of terrorists walking around with state authority.
Neighbors can be people you dont well, you should still trust them anyways, because you’d want them to treat you the same.
If you have drug addicts regularly causing you problems, might do you some good to befriend them in some way or help them out, instead of secure your shit and avoid them more. They aren’t any different than you are.
If you’re still talking about getting shit stolen off your porch, anyone within driving distance could be responsible for it.
Do you really think it’s possible to try to become friends with or “help out” every asshole within a 10 minute drive of where you live? Or even identify everyone in that range who might have sticky fingers?
Not concerned about porch pirates at all, people shouldnt order stuff like this.
Not everyone has been blessed with the same gift of blissful ignorance that you have.
I agree that people shouldn’t order Ring, it’s a shitty product for the reasons laid out in this thread and article. But “just be nicer to everyone around you” is not a viable alternative, and suggesting it is dismissive of the realities other people are living.
I grew up around drug addicts, and in my experience, befriending them doesn’t protect your shit. I had my PS3 stolen by a dude we showed nothing but kindness too when he needed a fix. Don’t get me wrong, addicts can be super chill people, but they’ll still steal from you when they need to get high.
Friend, family or stranger, don’t kid yourself that they won’t steal from you
Never said it would protect your shit, just that it likely would be better in the long run for everyone involved. Its not an easy problem to solve but I dont think we need to treat people poorly because of it. I understand if its just not possible to assume the financial risk though.
Just because I don’t trust those around me and use cameras doesn’t mean I treat people poorly. I am very respectful to the people who live and work around me, but that doesn’t mean I trust them not to take something that isn’t theirs.
Lack of trust does not equal disrespect, it just means I’ve seen the true side of a lot of people and don’t wish to let them take advantage of the kind of naivety that you display here.
It’s not that I’m unable to assume the risk, I’m unwilling to be taken advantage of.
Thats fair, I know my point of view is on the more extreme end.
I think some people also think they need it because they order way too much junk from the internet but it’s really just an indication of bad habits. If it’s for security a single camera doorbell is definitely not adequate solution either.
I recently adopted a dog who I want to monitor when I’m away from home. So I got a cheap motion tracking in-home camera with cloud storage, and AI identification for people and pets. The AI functions never fucking worked. I already had a Ring camera.
Did a bit of research after realising the cheapo camera was shit, and went for a eufy stack to replace the Ring doorbell and tbr shitty in-house camera.
I now have:
This gives me
While this happened a few years ago, I’d still suggest to block it from accessing the internet/cloud in your firewall nonetheless.
https://mjtsai.com/blog/2022/12/01/eufy-cameras-uploading-to-cloud-without-consent/
Even if it’s not on eufy’s end, there could always be a vulnerability.
Just bought a Reolink rln46 NVR and four cameras. I don’t have the doorbell, but every other feature you requested works flawlessly. It records 24/7 in 4K but can stream at lower resolutions if you want when you’re away from home on mobile. You can set what notifications you receive and when you want to receive them. You can even go back and search for events by type in the recorded video when they were never flagged for notification in the first place. I’ve been thoroughly impressed and plan to add to the system in the coming months.
I also use Reolink, including both the NVR and doorbell, and have been very pleased with it.
You can run all of that on a Raspberry Pi, without third-party access and surveyllance.
Yes I did this years ago in 2013, but the problem for my family was accessing the recordings (basically I never set up remote access outside of our LAN)
i use wyze, been solid for years esp for the price. local SD storage is a huge plus for me and the streaming quality is good and loads insanely fast. i have a handful of blink cameras around the property but never use them anymore bc the interface and UX is so shit