Yeah, this is a conversation we need to have more often. Bernie is basically a modern-day Bernstein. A century apart, but they’re playing the same game, pushing reformism that acts like a political pacifier. It sucks all the energy that should be going toward actually dismantling capitalism and redirects it into these dead-end, “safer” channels.
Bernstein was a big deal in Germany’s SPD, and he fully rejected the idea of revolutionary change. He argued that we could just slowly, gradually reform capitalism into socialism through voting and parliament. He basically tried to write off class conflict as some outdated concept. And in the end, he totally defanged the SPD. Instead of building real power, the working class got distracted with fights for slightly higher wages or limited welfare programs, all while the core capitalist hierarchy stayed perfectly intact. Rosa Luxemburg called this out perfectly saying that it turns socialism into a mild appendage of liberalism, sapping the working class of its transformative agency.
And you can see people like Bernie walking the exact same path. Sure, he talks a big game about inequality and corporate power, but his entire platform is just social democracy 101. It’s policies like Medicare for All, free college, a $15 minimum wage. These are bandaids on a bullet wound. They treat the symptoms but leave the underlying disease of capitalist relations totally untouched. Even worse, his whole project was about winning an election, which funneled what could have been a massive, militant grassroots movement straight into the Democratic Party, an institution that exists to manage and preserve capitalism. All that incredible energy got absorbed into phone banking and voter outreach instead of building real, lasting power outside the system, like strong unions, tenant organizations, and community networks.
Then the moment he conceded to Hillary and then Biden, his base just dissolved into thin air. People got disillusioned or fell back into voting for the “lesser evil.” There was no independent structure to keep the pressure on. It’s a direct parallel to how the SPD got integrated into the capitalist state in Weimar Germany. But even if his entire agenda magically passed, it would still exist within a neoliberal framework. It’s like the New Deal that coexisted along side Jim Crow, imperialism, and violent union-busting. Reforms inside the system are always conditional. They’re only allowed when they’re useful for capital, and their real purpose is to demobilize us.
A real challenge to capitalism needs a long-term strategy that mixes direct action, mass education, and building our own power bases from the ground up. Imagine if, instead of just telling people to vote for him, Bernie had urged his supporters to unionize their workplaces, organize rent strikes, and create mutual aid networks alongside the electoral stuff. Look at movements like MAS in Bolivia for an example of how you build grassroots power that can actually pressure institutions while raising people’s consciousness. But instead, his campaign became all about him, and when he lost, his followers were left with nothing.
The really scary part is how the reformist path actively paves the way for fascism. By channeling everything into parliamentary games, the SPD deprioritized mass mobilization. Workers were told to seek concessions instead of challenging capitalist power, which eroded class consciousness and left everyone totally unprepared to fight the Nazis. When the fascists started gaining ground, the SPD clung to their legalistic strategies and even refused to support strikes or armed resistance against Hitler. Their blind faith in bourgeois democracy made them miss the existential threat, and in a final, infamous betrayal, they ended up allying with the Nazis against the communists.
And now we’re watching the “progressive” wing of the Democratic Party follow the same exact playbook. They operate entirely within capitalist constraints, which undermines any chance for radical change and just fuels the right-wing backlash. The Democrats are brilliant at absorbing people’s energy into their campaigns, and their reliance on corporate donors guarantees that they can only pursue watered-down policies that leave people disillusioned. The SPD’s reformism literally enabled fascism by disorganizing the working class and making capitalist violence seem legitimate. In the same way, the Democratic Party’s “pragmatic incrementalism” sustains a system that breeds the reactionary monsters today. Trump is a direct product of these policies. We’re literally just watching history repeat itself as a farce.
If Sanders made a third party nobody would ever shut the fuck up about stealing votes from Democrats and putting Republicans in power forever.
If Bernie genuinely created a working class party like PSL, and adopted genuinely leftist politics as the base platform, then liberals would of course contest that but leftists would likely around it. If it was just a socdem party like the greens, though, then they’d likely see the same reaction they do.
He is okay with Imperialism as long as the government gives him free healthcare. Look at his track record on Israel.
Oh I’m aware, that’s why I said he’d have to adopt genuinely leftist politics, rather than sheepdogging for imperialism.
Yes. And if we had started on this project in the aftermath of 2016, we’d have a viable third party.
I wish it happened around W’s terms when the tea party formed to pull votes from Republicans. The Tea Party jumped back into the GOP and shoved them hard right and whatever left wing party could have pushed the democrats left.
If ifs and buts were candies and nuts we’d all have a merry Christmas. We can only work in the reality we have, not the one we want. As long as voters are married to the idea that the only meaningful opposition to Republicans is the Democratic Party, then that’s what we’re stuck with.
I think it’s far more viable to introduce ranked choice voting (which would allow for electing a third party while ensuring voters aren’t ’throwing away their vote’ if the third party doesn’t win) than it would be to convince the vast majority of Democratic voters to abandon the party and vote for a party that has won no elections. Maybe that would have worked a century ago when there were more parties and people were more used to the idea of living outside a two party system.
You correctly state that we have to work with the reality we have, but then spend the rest of your comment talking about something that is both highly unlikely and insufficient for change. History has proven the necessity of the working class organizing outside the electoralist boundary in order to achieve meaningful change.
the reality is that another effectively 2 party system at the united state’s southern border went third party in almost 10 years ago and things got better.
it’s odd that you dismiss a political voting system change that literally happened in the real world within our lifetimes; but advocate for another shift that has never been permitted by a political duopoly.
I wish we were when halfway smart enough for ranked choice voting. Unfortunately, not only are most voters too dumb to get it, but many jurisdictions are actually banning in right now.
Well yeah, it makes it harder for them to win. Especially after seeing it help a dem win in Alaska
Ok. Your opinion has been noted and dismissed. You clearly don’t know fuck about shit.
There is no such thing as a viable third party in a two party system. Until our elections require 50 percent to win or have ranked-choice there will only ever be two parties. At best you could hope to replace one of the top two, but you would have to see a complete collapse in their support first. After seeing a significant portion still supporting the current admin, I don’t think complete collapse for either party will ever happen.
You are just wrong, and it’s not even worth the effort it takes to dismiss the fact that your assumptions are all baseless.
The third party lane has been viable since Obama failed as a progressive populist.
If Bernie would have run as independent in 2016 alone, he would have won. And this would have held for 2020 or 2024. But that’s not who Bernie is. But his personality aside, the lane is and has been open.
The fact is that most voters aren’t loyal to a party but actually despise both major parties. 2024 not Biden and Trump were polling at historic lows for any race in the past 80 years. People are looking for a person to vote for, not a party.
This naive response is actually the biggest barrier, and I’m not saying it wouldn’t have been a multi year project. But if it had started in earnest in 2016; if Bernie would have run as independent. The lane was absolutely open.
That all being said, the US is entering into a period of one party rule due to its persistent unwillingness to have entertained third parties.
I made no assumptions. If Bernie ran as an independent in 2016 he would have had a split vote with Hillary allowing Trump to win still. Most voters might not be loyal to a party, but enough of them are. Any third party will have to split their vote with one of the other two which will give the win to the party that doesn’t split. Its not naive, its how things work. I wish we could have a third party, which is why I support ranked-choice. We currently don’t have ranked-choice, so any third party will just hand the win to the worst party. I’m all for potential third parties to run in the primaries, but then they can’t be independents. Definitely no third parties in the general though.
When was the last time a 3rd party candidate won more than 5% of the vote?
Unlike when he didn’t build a third party?
I mean he tried. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Mountain_Peace_and_Justice_Party
He was also regarded as independent for many years.
“best i can do is zionism”
There is no room for a third Party in a FPTP voting system as per Duverger’s Law. I think it’s likely the party would never take off, no matter how sensible its positions are. And even in the best case of it slowly growing while eating away at the democrats to eventually have a majority: during the time it takes to get there, elections would just be an easy republican win every time, as the ‘left half’ is split between bernie and status quo. I don’t think that’s worth it.
i’m the most pure leftist you’re fake leftist
Let the man rest already
