Yes, actually. A politicians first job is to get elected. It doesn’t matter how good their policies are if they just never get elected.
So if the anti-genocidenvoting block was actually a thing that voted reliably, then politicians could cater to those people instead of the pro Israel crowd.
And even ignoring that, when the choices are the guy that was somewhat pushing back on Netanyahu and making some effort to help Palestine, Vs the guy who is enthusiastic to go all in with Netanyahu, and cleanse the entire region so he build property their and make money and gave Israel the go ahead to start several all new wars. And we get one of those two options no matter what, then not voting is implicit support for the second, much worse option.
Bro you don’t even know who was running why are you talking? it was Kamala vs Trump not two men. Biden also did not push back against Israel most of the death and destruction of Gaza happened under Biden. He let them do a genocide what push back could there have been? He had all the power to stop it and did nothing.
All I am saying is when the options are two shitty candidates don’t be surprised when people stay home instead. You need someone who can inspire people to come out in vote and if they can’t do that they will lose. You keep talking about people that didn’t vote when you should ask yourself why was Kamala so fucking terrible that she lost to a child rapist? That is on her and no one else. You don’t blame the fucking fans when a sports team loses, they aren’t the ones playing the game. It was her job to win not anyone else’s and she failed miserably.
Huh, I didn’t realise Biden was Prime minister of Israel.
And like I said, a politicians first job is to get elected. And unless your whole party is corrupt and full of yes men, I president isn’t an all powerful dictator. If pro-genocide Zionists vote and anti genocide people don’t, then if course every politician is going to be pro Israel. All you do by not voting is reinforce the pro Israel position. Not voting means you’re just as responsible for what happened then the people actively voting for genocide.
Kamala was a shitty candidate that completely failed to inspire the democratic based to show up to vote. But that’s a completely different discussion.
What the fuck are you even saying? The pro-Palestinian voters should have voted for anti-Palestinian candidates to show that the pro-Palestinian voting bloc was worth pursuing? Are you actually saying that?
I’m saying if you don’t vote, then politicians have no reason to try and win your vote, they will instead try to win the vote of people who do vote, like Zionists.
And then since there is no option for your vote, even not casting it, that is decidedly pro Palestine, then the obvious best course of action is to vote for the least pro-iseael candidate. This also in theory gives incentive for the more pro-iseael party to shift to try and win more votes and opens room for a more pro Palestinian position on the other side.
If you actually care about the lives of Palestinian people and don’t just want to use them as a political chess piece, then this is the obvious course of action.
This is ridiculous. Just try thinking about this for second. You are saying that if the people demand something, and the politicians on both sides of the aisle don’t want to give it to them, it’s the people’s fault.
At this point, you have to admit that the politicians represent elite interests and not the people. How in the world could any other conclusion be valid? And if that’s the case, and people realize this, then literally the outcome will be the same whether you vote or don’t vote.
Listen, you’re all about harm reduction right? You think Trump made things worse. Let’s analyze that. Let’s compare Trump and Obama. Trump launched a war against Iran and he lost. Obama launched a war against Libya and turned it into an open-air slave market. Net net, Trump did less harm to Iran than Obama did to Libya. On deportations, Trump has deported 1.5M people so far. Obama deported 3M. Net net, Trump did less harm via deportation than Obama did.
So when we look at Palestine, and we see that the US hasn’t actually engaged directly in Palestine but rather Israel has done all of the work, what are we to conclude? That somehow Trump has made Palestine worse? I think Trump is incompetent, ignorant, and aloof. He doesn’t care what happens and he’s not really engaged. It’s Israel doing the harm in Palestine. In this way, blaming Trump for the conditions in Palestine is like blaming the president for a drought. It’s not in his control.
No. The conclusion is not “you should vote for genocide if you don’t want genocide to prove to the genocidaires that you’re still willing to vote for them even if they engage in genocide because otherwise they have no incentive to stop genocide”. That’s so clearly and obviously ridiculous it’s a wonder you’re willing to even say it. The conclusion is that your vote doesn’t matter because the empire is going to do whatever it needs to do to maintain its power and voting is impotent to change those things.
This is ridiculous. Just try thinking about this for second. You are saying that if the people demand something, and the politicians on both sides of the aisle don’t want to give it to them, it’s the people’s fault.
It’s a democracy and primaries exist. If “the people” vote for a shitty candidate in the primaries, then that’s on them.
You’re acting as if the pro Palestine position is near universal and the democrats are just saying no for no reason (or corruption/malice whatever) but the reality is most of the voter base either doesn’t give a shit about Palestine or is probably Israel.
And that’s kind of my whole point. Those people vote, so if pro Palestine people don’t vote then you don’t get prop Palestine candidates, so it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Yes politicians overwhelmingly represent corporate interests, but acting like there is 0 political pressure from actual voters is nonsense. Not voting is giving tacit approval for the politicians to only care about the ekete or the other side.
Trump didn’t run against Obama.
we see that the US hasn’t actually engaged directly in Palestine but rather Israel has done all of the work
So that applied to Biden too?
you should vote for genocide
And now you’re back to claiming the US is responsible for the genocide.
It’s a democracy and primaries exist. If “the people” vote for a shitty candidate in the primaries, then that’s on them.
Victim blaming. The entire primary process is, like every other structure in the country, designed by the elite to maintain their power. It’s been that way since the founding. The goal is the image of legitimacy and disempowerment of the masses.
You’re acting as if the pro Palestine position is near universal and the democrats are just saying no for no reason (or corruption/malice whatever) but the reality is most of the voter base either doesn’t give a shit about Palestine or is probably Israel.
So you’re saying that if the majority of voters want genocide, then that’s the position the Ds should hold, and those of us opposed should just suck it up and vote for them because if we don’t… their opponents will win… Do you realize what you’re even saying?
And that’s kind of my whole point. Those people vote, so if pro Palestine people don’t vote then you don’t get prop Palestine candidates, so it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Almost like voting doesn’t matter because what’s going to happen is whatever the elite ruling class wants to happen.
Yes politicians overwhelmingly represent corporate interests, but acting like there is 0 political pressure from actual voters is nonsense. Not voting is giving tacit approval for the politicians to only care about the ekete or the other side.
In a different thread we discussed the changes that occurred in the country’s past. Women’s suffrage came up. It’s pretty obvious that women got the vote by applying pressure outside the ballot box. The same is true for civil rights. Nixon had to give ground on civil rights because of what was happening outside the ballot box, not inside. In fact, he and his administration deliberately disenfranchised people through the war on drugs (which every single subsequent administration enhanced). Because it turns out that they control how the voting system works.
Trump didn’t run against Obama.
Then perhaps you’re not paying attention to the point, which is that the party affiliation doesn’t reduce harm, and that people who believe in the goodness of Ds deliberately ignore the immense harm Ds have done and continue to do.
we see that the US hasn’t actually engaged directly in Palestine but rather Israel has done all of the work
So that applied to Biden too?
Yes, Biden didn’t engage directly in Palestine. Israel did all the work. Both Trump and Biden, both Ds and Rs in Congress, participate merely by sending more and more weapons, money, and training to Israel regardless of what they do. Biden openly supported the genocide, Trump openly supported the genocide. No harm was reduced nor increased based on voting.
And now you’re back to claiming the US is responsible for the genocide.
The US is responsible for genocide because they have provided unending support for Israel regardless of their actions. Trump didn’t make it worse, Biden didn’t make it better. The fact that you can’t see this makes it look like you’re just interested in attaching your favorite brand to an issue that people care deeply about in order to win points.
So how did people that go against what the elites want get into power?
I’m saying that’s how a democracy works you fucking idiot, if the majority of voters feel strongly about something politicians will promise it to secure their votes. Please for the love of god read a book.
Unless you vote for someone in the primary that shares your views.
Yet a fucking gain, you are pushing your dumb fucking false dichotomy that because activism works that means voting is pointless. You seem physically incapable of not seeing the world in black and white. You are as dumb as every right wing Trump voter I’ve ever spoken to.
It does reduce harm. As I’ve mentioned Trump stripped healthcare from 1.6m Americans, that is harm that wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t get elected. And your only answer to it was that democrats didn’t magically make it impossible to do that before he did it. Because you don’t seem to understand basic civics.
There was, Biden didn’t do much but he did pressure Netanyahu on Palestine, he witheld some military aid over Yahu’s invasion of Rafah, he also dropped aid and supplies into Gaza and pushed for the construction of the floating dock. Yes, it wasnt enough but it’s more than what Trump ever did and that’s the point.
If a democrat being elected stops even a single bomb, then it’s worth doing. That’s the point and you have no argument against that besides doing mental gymnastics to try and blame Obama for everything bad Trump has done (a typical MAGA tactic btw) or just saying “nuh uh they’re literally exactly the same” even though you’ve already admitted that voting changes things.
Biden did make it better and trump did make it worse. The whole pointless fucking war with Iran, the invasion of Lebanon are fucking proof of that. But again you don’t give a shit about these people. So much so that you’re ignoring everyone I bring it up.
Literally all you care about is feeling good about yourself. You willfully ignorant of any reality that doesn’t feed your superiority complex and you are just simply a shitty human being.
Yes, actually. A politicians first job is to get elected. It doesn’t matter how good their policies are if they just never get elected.
So if the anti-genocidenvoting block was actually a thing that voted reliably, then politicians could cater to those people instead of the pro Israel crowd.
And even ignoring that, when the choices are the guy that was somewhat pushing back on Netanyahu and making some effort to help Palestine, Vs the guy who is enthusiastic to go all in with Netanyahu, and cleanse the entire region so he build property their and make money and gave Israel the go ahead to start several all new wars. And we get one of those two options no matter what, then not voting is implicit support for the second, much worse option.
Bro you don’t even know who was running why are you talking? it was Kamala vs Trump not two men. Biden also did not push back against Israel most of the death and destruction of Gaza happened under Biden. He let them do a genocide what push back could there have been? He had all the power to stop it and did nothing.
All I am saying is when the options are two shitty candidates don’t be surprised when people stay home instead. You need someone who can inspire people to come out in vote and if they can’t do that they will lose. You keep talking about people that didn’t vote when you should ask yourself why was Kamala so fucking terrible that she lost to a child rapist? That is on her and no one else. You don’t blame the fucking fans when a sports team loses, they aren’t the ones playing the game. It was her job to win not anyone else’s and she failed miserably.
Huh, I didn’t realise Biden was Prime minister of Israel.
And like I said, a politicians first job is to get elected. And unless your whole party is corrupt and full of yes men, I president isn’t an all powerful dictator. If pro-genocide Zionists vote and anti genocide people don’t, then if course every politician is going to be pro Israel. All you do by not voting is reinforce the pro Israel position. Not voting means you’re just as responsible for what happened then the people actively voting for genocide.
Kamala was a shitty candidate that completely failed to inspire the democratic based to show up to vote. But that’s a completely different discussion.
What the fuck are you even saying? The pro-Palestinian voters should have voted for anti-Palestinian candidates to show that the pro-Palestinian voting bloc was worth pursuing? Are you actually saying that?
I’m saying if you don’t vote, then politicians have no reason to try and win your vote, they will instead try to win the vote of people who do vote, like Zionists.
And then since there is no option for your vote, even not casting it, that is decidedly pro Palestine, then the obvious best course of action is to vote for the least pro-iseael candidate. This also in theory gives incentive for the more pro-iseael party to shift to try and win more votes and opens room for a more pro Palestinian position on the other side.
If you actually care about the lives of Palestinian people and don’t just want to use them as a political chess piece, then this is the obvious course of action.
This is ridiculous. Just try thinking about this for second. You are saying that if the people demand something, and the politicians on both sides of the aisle don’t want to give it to them, it’s the people’s fault.
At this point, you have to admit that the politicians represent elite interests and not the people. How in the world could any other conclusion be valid? And if that’s the case, and people realize this, then literally the outcome will be the same whether you vote or don’t vote.
Listen, you’re all about harm reduction right? You think Trump made things worse. Let’s analyze that. Let’s compare Trump and Obama. Trump launched a war against Iran and he lost. Obama launched a war against Libya and turned it into an open-air slave market. Net net, Trump did less harm to Iran than Obama did to Libya. On deportations, Trump has deported 1.5M people so far. Obama deported 3M. Net net, Trump did less harm via deportation than Obama did.
So when we look at Palestine, and we see that the US hasn’t actually engaged directly in Palestine but rather Israel has done all of the work, what are we to conclude? That somehow Trump has made Palestine worse? I think Trump is incompetent, ignorant, and aloof. He doesn’t care what happens and he’s not really engaged. It’s Israel doing the harm in Palestine. In this way, blaming Trump for the conditions in Palestine is like blaming the president for a drought. It’s not in his control.
No. The conclusion is not “you should vote for genocide if you don’t want genocide to prove to the genocidaires that you’re still willing to vote for them even if they engage in genocide because otherwise they have no incentive to stop genocide”. That’s so clearly and obviously ridiculous it’s a wonder you’re willing to even say it. The conclusion is that your vote doesn’t matter because the empire is going to do whatever it needs to do to maintain its power and voting is impotent to change those things.
It’s a democracy and primaries exist. If “the people” vote for a shitty candidate in the primaries, then that’s on them.
You’re acting as if the pro Palestine position is near universal and the democrats are just saying no for no reason (or corruption/malice whatever) but the reality is most of the voter base either doesn’t give a shit about Palestine or is probably Israel.
And that’s kind of my whole point. Those people vote, so if pro Palestine people don’t vote then you don’t get prop Palestine candidates, so it’s a self fulfilling prophecy.
Yes politicians overwhelmingly represent corporate interests, but acting like there is 0 political pressure from actual voters is nonsense. Not voting is giving tacit approval for the politicians to only care about the ekete or the other side.
Trump didn’t run against Obama.
So that applied to Biden too?
And now you’re back to claiming the US is responsible for the genocide.
You’re starting to sound like a MAGA.
Victim blaming. The entire primary process is, like every other structure in the country, designed by the elite to maintain their power. It’s been that way since the founding. The goal is the image of legitimacy and disempowerment of the masses.
So you’re saying that if the majority of voters want genocide, then that’s the position the Ds should hold, and those of us opposed should just suck it up and vote for them because if we don’t… their opponents will win… Do you realize what you’re even saying?
Almost like voting doesn’t matter because what’s going to happen is whatever the elite ruling class wants to happen.
In a different thread we discussed the changes that occurred in the country’s past. Women’s suffrage came up. It’s pretty obvious that women got the vote by applying pressure outside the ballot box. The same is true for civil rights. Nixon had to give ground on civil rights because of what was happening outside the ballot box, not inside. In fact, he and his administration deliberately disenfranchised people through the war on drugs (which every single subsequent administration enhanced). Because it turns out that they control how the voting system works.
Then perhaps you’re not paying attention to the point, which is that the party affiliation doesn’t reduce harm, and that people who believe in the goodness of Ds deliberately ignore the immense harm Ds have done and continue to do.
Yes, Biden didn’t engage directly in Palestine. Israel did all the work. Both Trump and Biden, both Ds and Rs in Congress, participate merely by sending more and more weapons, money, and training to Israel regardless of what they do. Biden openly supported the genocide, Trump openly supported the genocide. No harm was reduced nor increased based on voting.
The US is responsible for genocide because they have provided unending support for Israel regardless of their actions. Trump didn’t make it worse, Biden didn’t make it better. The fact that you can’t see this makes it look like you’re just interested in attaching your favorite brand to an issue that people care deeply about in order to win points.
Such a thought terminating cliche.
So how did people that go against what the elites want get into power?
I’m saying that’s how a democracy works you fucking idiot, if the majority of voters feel strongly about something politicians will promise it to secure their votes. Please for the love of god read a book.
Unless you vote for someone in the primary that shares your views.
Yet a fucking gain, you are pushing your dumb fucking false dichotomy that because activism works that means voting is pointless. You seem physically incapable of not seeing the world in black and white. You are as dumb as every right wing Trump voter I’ve ever spoken to.
It does reduce harm. As I’ve mentioned Trump stripped healthcare from 1.6m Americans, that is harm that wouldn’t have happened if he didn’t get elected. And your only answer to it was that democrats didn’t magically make it impossible to do that before he did it. Because you don’t seem to understand basic civics.
There was, Biden didn’t do much but he did pressure Netanyahu on Palestine, he witheld some military aid over Yahu’s invasion of Rafah, he also dropped aid and supplies into Gaza and pushed for the construction of the floating dock. Yes, it wasnt enough but it’s more than what Trump ever did and that’s the point.
If a democrat being elected stops even a single bomb, then it’s worth doing. That’s the point and you have no argument against that besides doing mental gymnastics to try and blame Obama for everything bad Trump has done (a typical MAGA tactic btw) or just saying “nuh uh they’re literally exactly the same” even though you’ve already admitted that voting changes things.
Biden did make it better and trump did make it worse. The whole pointless fucking war with Iran, the invasion of Lebanon are fucking proof of that. But again you don’t give a shit about these people. So much so that you’re ignoring everyone I bring it up.
Literally all you care about is feeling good about yourself. You willfully ignorant of any reality that doesn’t feed your superiority complex and you are just simply a shitty human being.