You know what stops pipelines? Physical altercations. You know what stops cop cities? Physical altercations. Voting has only ever increased the military, increased the police, and increased the prisons. Voting one way or the other literally has no impact. The only way to stop this stuff is to fight.
Like the Keystone XL pipeline that was delayed by Obama, then Trump tried to force it through and then was finally stopped when Biden signed an executive order revoking their permit?
Which cities are no longer “cop cities” (whatever that means) because of physical altercstions?
Voting passed civil rights, voting ended gay criminalisation, voting passed labour laws, healthcare reform and women’s rights.
And when it goes the other way voting gets us war in Iran, gets criminalised abortions, legalised transphobia, qualified immunity for cops, “clean coal”, legalised pedophilia, people executed by ice, and hundred of thousands of people deported.
There is literally no argument for fighting for your rights that excludes voting as well.
The Keystone XL pipeline was delayed by Obama in response to the physical altercations that were happening to prevent it. He didn’t do that because we voted for him, he did it because we were willing to fight. More to the point, though, the Ds didn’t actually come up with a way to stop it from happening. They delayed it using the office of the president, which immediately created the opportunity for Trump. Solving this with presidential action is exactly the sort of performative bullshit the Ds are great at. While Obama blocked the permit for the Keystone XL, he also drove the single largest expansion of fossil fuel production the US has ever seen under a single president.
Because it was never about voting him in to protect the environment. It was about putting your body on the line and fighting with riot police.
The fact that you don’t know what a cop city is makes you woefully under equipped for this part of the conversation m. Go do some reading. Cop cities have strong bi-partisan support and the only thing stopping them is protestors physically disrupting construction sites.
Only because there were riots and radical disobedience. I mean, think about women’s suffrage. The women couldn’t vote their way to suffrage, definitionally. They got it by making it impossible to ignore them. When all they did was lobby, they got nowhere for decades. They had to shut things down and make life very hard for everyone else to get what they wanted. They literally couldn’t fucking vote, how could this be an example of the power of voting?
And when it goes the other way voting gets us war in Iran
The US has been at war for 99% of its existence. Truman, the Democrat, launched the genocidal war in Korea. Johnson, the Democrat, launched the genocidal war in Vietnam. Obama, the Democrat, launched the mass murdering war in Libya (which was planned under Bush 2). Biden sent millions of weapons to Israel and collaborated with them to continue the genocide in Palestine. The war in Iran is this administration’s special war, but every single administration is bathed in blood and it goes back to the founding of the country.
gets criminalised abortions
Because the Democrats had multiple trifectas over the last 40 years and openly refused to codify Roe into law. And they did so by blaming their own party members as anti-abortion. So the Ds are telling you openly that the reason we don’t have abortion protected in law is because the Ds literally can’t do it because Ds oppose it. How much clearer do they need to be?
legalised transphobia
Bruh. The Supreme Court made transphobia illegal, not the Democrats. Transphobia has been a bipartisan legal structure across the US for well over a century.
qualified immunity for cops
Qualified immunity is a judicial doctrine, not a party position. Democrats aggressively supported qualified inmunity. It’s only recently that Ds shifted their position and it’s explicitly because of the riots in 2020, not because people voted for them.
clean coal
Obama was a huge proponent of clean coal. Are you daft?
legalised pedophilia
I mean, Biden explicitly didn’t prosecute the Epstein case, he refused to let the DOJ release the files, he had all the knowledge as did his DOJ and they did nothing.
people executed by ice
All the data I have looked at is that cops killing people is independent of party in office. As in, it literally doesn’t matter who you vote in, cops will kill people at about the same rate. Yes, the R’s use of ICE and DHS in the streets of major cities is absolutely shocking.
But Obama and Biden developed these departments into the tool they are. They expanded data collecting and sharing for these departments. They created the structure required to deploy ICE and BORTAC into American cities. Hell, Homan was Obama’s pick to run ICE and was his top deportation official. It’s not surprising Trump would continue to rely on him for the same purpose.
and hundred of thousands of people deported
Obama still holds the current record for most people deported - 3 million, with an additional 2 million at the border.
I know that the narrative is that Democrats are the exact opposite of the things that are terrible about the Republicans, but it’s a false narrative. They both advance the same agendas, and where they differ, the Ds make everything they do easily reversible or ignorable. But worse is that the Ds actively create the tools the Rs use.
So no. Voting doesn’t create change. People in the streets creates change.
The Keystone XL pipeline was delayed by Obama in response to the physical altercations that were happening to prevent it. He didn’t do that because we voted for him, he did it because we were willing to fight. More to the point, though, the Ds didn’t actually come up with a way to stop it from happening. They delayed it using the office of the president, which immediately created the opportunity for Trump. Solving this with presidential action is exactly the sort of performative bullshit the Ds are great at. While Obama blocked the permit for the Keystone XL, he also drove the single largest expansion of fossil fuel production the US has ever seen under a single president.
You’re intentionally missing the point here. You say fighting closes pipelines, not voting, but if Trump won in 2020 the pipeline would have gone through, because no amount of fighting would have got him to change his mind, but it did for Biden. So voting does, undeniably, make a difference.
The fact that you don’t know what a cop city is makes you woefully under equipped for this part of the conversation m
And there’s that classic smugness you people live and breathe for.
And as usually instead of just explaining what you mean by this random obscure bit of terminology that no one else uses, you just use it as a chance to jerk yourself off. This is exactly what I mean I say you guys only care about your own moral superiority and not about actually advancing the causes you pretend to believe in.
Like I try and look up what you mean, but the only reference to cop cities is just a training campus for cops in Atlanta.
Only because there were riots and radical disobedience
And because people voted. If the pro civil rights types just said “both sides are the same, so I’m not going to vote for segregation” and didn’t vote, then republicans would have won and we wouldnt have got the civil rights act at all.
This is what you guys don’t seem to understand. You need both political activism AND voting to make a difference, you can’t just rely on one or the other. When you don’t vote you effectively taking your hands off the reigns and letting everyone else steer where they want.
If you want politicians to make the changes you want, then you have to actually vote, because the pro Palestine people vote, the anti abortion types vote, the homophobes, transohobes and sexists vote. So politicians can either push policy for those people to win their votes or they can push policy for people like you who don’t vote and gain nothing for it.
I’ll ignore your self-victimization about your own ignorance and just go after the voting thing.
Again, women’s suffrage is the example that shows you’re wrong. They literally couldn’t vote and still got what they needed because of what you call “activism”. Except it was specifically radical activism. They spent decades lobbying politicians and letter writing and protesting acceptably and it go them nowhere. They broke the law, they ended up prison, they went on hunger strikes, they surrounded the white house. They got the ballot. Not by voting. By fighting.
So when we look at the civil rights movement, we see that Nixon was ALSO forced to concede policy positions and abandon his conservative positions. So clearly it’s not the case that voting in Ds is the only way. Meanwhile, FDR the democrat refused any structural civil rights concessions and refused to entertain a federal anti-lynching bill and JFK the Democrat also avoided making any major concessions arguing that it would harm the Democrats in the South.
So as we see, the party in charge doesn’t fucking matter, what matters is how forcefully you can make your case. This is known as “interest convergence”. Until you can make meeting your demands less risky than ignoring your demands, nothing will happen. Republican and Democrat alike work this way. You have to force them.
It’s like trying to build muscle by studying math. Will studying math help you when you need to track your progress and understand angles and pulleys? Yes. But studying math isn’t going to build muscle. Nothing is stopping me from going to the gym and also studying math, but studying math isn’t actually the thing that will build muscle.
Voting isn’t solving any of our problems. Can it help a little bit with some of them? Maybe. But we need to be honest about what it will solve.
Keystone XL pipeline was canceled because of physical altercation, voting rights and civil rights were passed because of physical altercations. The gay community only won their rights because of physical altercations. What is it with liberals that are terrified of actual protest?
It was cancelled because Biden passed an executive order revoking their permit. If Trump won in 2020 they would have kept their permit and the pipeline would have been built.
You’re trying to claim the giant souless billion dollar oil company would decide against making more profit simply because of some minor protests and confrontations with police. You’re basically making the same argument free market capitalists do…
Biden canceling the permit was the final step, there was A LOT of activism and fighting well before that happened. And Biden only revoked the permit because SCOTUS killed the project August 2020
You know what stops pipelines? Physical altercations. You know what stops cop cities? Physical altercations. Voting has only ever increased the military, increased the police, and increased the prisons. Voting one way or the other literally has no impact. The only way to stop this stuff is to fight.
Like the Keystone XL pipeline that was delayed by Obama, then Trump tried to force it through and then was finally stopped when Biden signed an executive order revoking their permit?
Which cities are no longer “cop cities” (whatever that means) because of physical altercstions?
Voting passed civil rights, voting ended gay criminalisation, voting passed labour laws, healthcare reform and women’s rights.
And when it goes the other way voting gets us war in Iran, gets criminalised abortions, legalised transphobia, qualified immunity for cops, “clean coal”, legalised pedophilia, people executed by ice, and hundred of thousands of people deported.
There is literally no argument for fighting for your rights that excludes voting as well.
The Keystone XL pipeline was delayed by Obama in response to the physical altercations that were happening to prevent it. He didn’t do that because we voted for him, he did it because we were willing to fight. More to the point, though, the Ds didn’t actually come up with a way to stop it from happening. They delayed it using the office of the president, which immediately created the opportunity for Trump. Solving this with presidential action is exactly the sort of performative bullshit the Ds are great at. While Obama blocked the permit for the Keystone XL, he also drove the single largest expansion of fossil fuel production the US has ever seen under a single president.
Because it was never about voting him in to protect the environment. It was about putting your body on the line and fighting with riot police.
The fact that you don’t know what a cop city is makes you woefully under equipped for this part of the conversation m. Go do some reading. Cop cities have strong bi-partisan support and the only thing stopping them is protestors physically disrupting construction sites.
Only because there were riots and radical disobedience. I mean, think about women’s suffrage. The women couldn’t vote their way to suffrage, definitionally. They got it by making it impossible to ignore them. When all they did was lobby, they got nowhere for decades. They had to shut things down and make life very hard for everyone else to get what they wanted. They literally couldn’t fucking vote, how could this be an example of the power of voting?
The US has been at war for 99% of its existence. Truman, the Democrat, launched the genocidal war in Korea. Johnson, the Democrat, launched the genocidal war in Vietnam. Obama, the Democrat, launched the mass murdering war in Libya (which was planned under Bush 2). Biden sent millions of weapons to Israel and collaborated with them to continue the genocide in Palestine. The war in Iran is this administration’s special war, but every single administration is bathed in blood and it goes back to the founding of the country.
Because the Democrats had multiple trifectas over the last 40 years and openly refused to codify Roe into law. And they did so by blaming their own party members as anti-abortion. So the Ds are telling you openly that the reason we don’t have abortion protected in law is because the Ds literally can’t do it because Ds oppose it. How much clearer do they need to be?
Bruh. The Supreme Court made transphobia illegal, not the Democrats. Transphobia has been a bipartisan legal structure across the US for well over a century.
Qualified immunity is a judicial doctrine, not a party position. Democrats aggressively supported qualified inmunity. It’s only recently that Ds shifted their position and it’s explicitly because of the riots in 2020, not because people voted for them.
Obama was a huge proponent of clean coal. Are you daft?
I mean, Biden explicitly didn’t prosecute the Epstein case, he refused to let the DOJ release the files, he had all the knowledge as did his DOJ and they did nothing.
All the data I have looked at is that cops killing people is independent of party in office. As in, it literally doesn’t matter who you vote in, cops will kill people at about the same rate. Yes, the R’s use of ICE and DHS in the streets of major cities is absolutely shocking.
But Obama and Biden developed these departments into the tool they are. They expanded data collecting and sharing for these departments. They created the structure required to deploy ICE and BORTAC into American cities. Hell, Homan was Obama’s pick to run ICE and was his top deportation official. It’s not surprising Trump would continue to rely on him for the same purpose.
Obama still holds the current record for most people deported - 3 million, with an additional 2 million at the border.
I know that the narrative is that Democrats are the exact opposite of the things that are terrible about the Republicans, but it’s a false narrative. They both advance the same agendas, and where they differ, the Ds make everything they do easily reversible or ignorable. But worse is that the Ds actively create the tools the Rs use.
So no. Voting doesn’t create change. People in the streets creates change.
You’re intentionally missing the point here. You say fighting closes pipelines, not voting, but if Trump won in 2020 the pipeline would have gone through, because no amount of fighting would have got him to change his mind, but it did for Biden. So voting does, undeniably, make a difference.
And there’s that classic smugness you people live and breathe for.
And as usually instead of just explaining what you mean by this random obscure bit of terminology that no one else uses, you just use it as a chance to jerk yourself off. This is exactly what I mean I say you guys only care about your own moral superiority and not about actually advancing the causes you pretend to believe in.
Like I try and look up what you mean, but the only reference to cop cities is just a training campus for cops in Atlanta.
And because people voted. If the pro civil rights types just said “both sides are the same, so I’m not going to vote for segregation” and didn’t vote, then republicans would have won and we wouldnt have got the civil rights act at all.
This is what you guys don’t seem to understand. You need both political activism AND voting to make a difference, you can’t just rely on one or the other. When you don’t vote you effectively taking your hands off the reigns and letting everyone else steer where they want.
If you want politicians to make the changes you want, then you have to actually vote, because the pro Palestine people vote, the anti abortion types vote, the homophobes, transohobes and sexists vote. So politicians can either push policy for those people to win their votes or they can push policy for people like you who don’t vote and gain nothing for it.
I’ll ignore your self-victimization about your own ignorance and just go after the voting thing.
Again, women’s suffrage is the example that shows you’re wrong. They literally couldn’t vote and still got what they needed because of what you call “activism”. Except it was specifically radical activism. They spent decades lobbying politicians and letter writing and protesting acceptably and it go them nowhere. They broke the law, they ended up prison, they went on hunger strikes, they surrounded the white house. They got the ballot. Not by voting. By fighting.
So when we look at the civil rights movement, we see that Nixon was ALSO forced to concede policy positions and abandon his conservative positions. So clearly it’s not the case that voting in Ds is the only way. Meanwhile, FDR the democrat refused any structural civil rights concessions and refused to entertain a federal anti-lynching bill and JFK the Democrat also avoided making any major concessions arguing that it would harm the Democrats in the South.
So as we see, the party in charge doesn’t fucking matter, what matters is how forcefully you can make your case. This is known as “interest convergence”. Until you can make meeting your demands less risky than ignoring your demands, nothing will happen. Republican and Democrat alike work this way. You have to force them.
Again your intentionally missing the point and pushing the false dichotomy that’s it’s either voting or protesting/fighting.
You can and should do both. And nothing you’re arguing is a good point against voting.
It’s like trying to build muscle by studying math. Will studying math help you when you need to track your progress and understand angles and pulleys? Yes. But studying math isn’t going to build muscle. Nothing is stopping me from going to the gym and also studying math, but studying math isn’t actually the thing that will build muscle.
Voting isn’t solving any of our problems. Can it help a little bit with some of them? Maybe. But we need to be honest about what it will solve.
Keystone XL pipeline was canceled because of physical altercation, voting rights and civil rights were passed because of physical altercations. The gay community only won their rights because of physical altercations. What is it with liberals that are terrified of actual protest?
It was cancelled because Biden passed an executive order revoking their permit. If Trump won in 2020 they would have kept their permit and the pipeline would have been built.
You’re trying to claim the giant souless billion dollar oil company would decide against making more profit simply because of some minor protests and confrontations with police. You’re basically making the same argument free market capitalists do…
Biden canceling the permit was the final step, there was A LOT of activism and fighting well before that happened. And Biden only revoked the permit because SCOTUS killed the project August 2020
And would Trump, who made a big deal about supporting the pipeline in 2016, have cancelled the pipeline if he won in 2020?
He wouldn’t have had a choice, SCOTUS killed it during his term. Regardless if he would have revoked the permit or not it couldn’t move forward.
Okay, then tell me, who appoints scouts judges?
Joe Biden helped give us Thomas, Obama refusing to fight gave us Gorsuch, and RBGs arrogance gave us Comey-Barrett.