I think that is a really gross thing to say from someone who didn’t pay attention to the ongoing rapes of children in ICE concentration camps. I think that’s a gross thing to say to the militarized presence of ICE kidnapping people as they left their court hearings to be here. I think that’s a gross thing to say to the people attacked by ICE for protecting their neighbors. I think that’s a gross thing to say to the people who got married and had to pick up their partner’s green card because they were arresting them and shipping them all over the country.
To say that it’s a smaller number is insane
So… all this is just what? Partisanism? You can’t extend this to prison system and police killings? You can’t extend this to the bombing and total destruction of sovereign nations? You can’t extend this to shipping arms to genocidal regimes and protecting them in the UN? It’s only valid harm reduction if you’re voting for Democrats regardless of the active harm they do?
I mean, do you not see the contradiction in your own words here?
There is no contradiction. That 3 million number is bad, but it is still better than the 1.5 million number because of the methods used. Because prisoners didn’t go down under Republicans. The prison system didn’t get better under Republicans. Police killings didn’t get better under Republicans. Like, I know it’s gauche to try to compare hurt, but I do not see any Republicans calling for a rehabilitation system instead of a punitive system, but I do see some Democrats call for it, even if very few.
Like, it’s sort of like telling me to pick between 1000 thefts being committed vs 100 murders, and, like, yeah, obviously I’ll take 1000 thefts over the murders. I don’t want either, but I have two fucking choices.
Which would you pick? Remember, there’s quantitatively less crimes with the murders! Oh, you didn’t pick? That just means someone else gets to pick for you.
Like, it’s sort of like telling me to pick between 1000 thefts being committed vs 100 murders, and, like, yeah, obviously I’ll take 1000 thefts over the murders. I don’t want either, but I have two fucking choices.
It’s nothing like this. You’re literally doing the thing you said shouldn’t be done. You think that because Trump made it visible, it’s worse, and because Obama’s deportations were less visible, they’re better. That’s essentially saying that the deciding factor is whether or not white people are made uncomfortable by it. Literally, you’re saying Obama deporting twice as much people is still LESS BAD than Trump deporting half as many because we all have to see it happening on the streets instead of it happening quietly through the prison-industrial complex.
Trump has concentration camps where children are being raped and disappeared. Like systematically. As part of the deportation process. I do not think that is better. Do you think it is better? I think that is worse. Obama didn’t have fucking goon squads kidnapping and shooting people in the streets, camping out at bus stops and churches. Like, I get that Obama was cruel, but he did not let ICE fuck children and shoot people with impunity. And that is the difference. And you are trying to pretend it is better to have the 1.5 million even if severalfold more of them are raped and murdered as a result. I think that’s worse. Do you not?
Your study has a lot of issues, but mainly that it relies on data provided by ICE, but also that it does not clarify the difference in sexual assault under Obama vs. Under Trump. It could show a difference under Trump vs. Biden (or rather, Trump’s first term), but I don’t think you really read the report.
Regardless, there is currently ongoing rapes in concentration camps under Trump II, and a fuckton more than this study shows under both, so I really don’t see how this proves me wrong. Thanks for confirmation.
You just can’t seem to choose whether it’s OK to quantify harm and advocate for harm reduction on that basis or whether harm is qualitative and cannot be reduced to simple numerical comparison.
Which is it: it’s disgusting to the tell the victims of sexual violence under Obama and Biden that Trump is presiding over more of it and that’s why it’s OK to vote for Ds, or it’s virtuous to vote lesser evil and harm reduction on a quantitative basis?
Did Biden prosecute the perpetrators of sexual violence against detained immigrants? Did he address the harm? Or did he ignore the harm?
It sounds to me like you are deeply attached to the idea that Democrats are NOT actively participating in the system and that the Republicans are. To me, the evidence is clear that this is a Good Cop / Bad Cop situation and they both work for the same department and you’re just being duped by the routine.
I think you are the only one confused. I do not think your data shows that rapes of children was somehow less under Biden. Or even that rapes were less. They kinda cart out those pregnant children every day out there in New Jersey.
The only thing I see you do is take no stance. And that is because you have the privilege to take none. Maybe no one you know is being hurt worse from the decision of others. I think you should feel lucky. You must have a great life.
No, I am taking a stance. You just don’t like it. My stance is that voting Democrat won’t save anyone, that the Democrats have demonstrated that they will not only oversee the same atrocities of the Republicans but that they will not punish the criminals and they will give the fascist more tools every time they get to elected. My stance is that the only way to protect our siblings and elders and children is to fight, in the streets, in the workplaces, in public, shut down the economy, and force the issue because historically it is the only thing that has ever worked in this country. Women’s suffrage, labor rights, civil rights, and gay rights all came from riots and strikes, not from banging pots and voting.
So… all this is just what? Partisanism? You can’t extend this to prison system and police killings? You can’t extend this to the bombing and total destruction of sovereign nations? You can’t extend this to shipping arms to genocidal regimes and protecting them in the UN? It’s only valid harm reduction if you’re voting for Democrats regardless of the active harm they do?
I mean, do you not see the contradiction in your own words here?
There is no contradiction. That 3 million number is bad, but it is still better than the 1.5 million number because of the methods used. Because prisoners didn’t go down under Republicans. The prison system didn’t get better under Republicans. Police killings didn’t get better under Republicans. Like, I know it’s gauche to try to compare hurt, but I do not see any Republicans calling for a rehabilitation system instead of a punitive system, but I do see some Democrats call for it, even if very few.
Like, it’s sort of like telling me to pick between 1000 thefts being committed vs 100 murders, and, like, yeah, obviously I’ll take 1000 thefts over the murders. I don’t want either, but I have two fucking choices.
Which would you pick? Remember, there’s quantitatively less crimes with the murders! Oh, you didn’t pick? That just means someone else gets to pick for you.
It’s nothing like this. You’re literally doing the thing you said shouldn’t be done. You think that because Trump made it visible, it’s worse, and because Obama’s deportations were less visible, they’re better. That’s essentially saying that the deciding factor is whether or not white people are made uncomfortable by it. Literally, you’re saying Obama deporting twice as much people is still LESS BAD than Trump deporting half as many because we all have to see it happening on the streets instead of it happening quietly through the prison-industrial complex.
I think that’s disgusting, quite frankly.
Trump has concentration camps where children are being raped and disappeared. Like systematically. As part of the deportation process. I do not think that is better. Do you think it is better? I think that is worse. Obama didn’t have fucking goon squads kidnapping and shooting people in the streets, camping out at bus stops and churches. Like, I get that Obama was cruel, but he did not let ICE fuck children and shoot people with impunity. And that is the difference. And you are trying to pretend it is better to have the 1.5 million even if severalfold more of them are raped and murdered as a result. I think that’s worse. Do you not?
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10408271/
First line
Your study has a lot of issues, but mainly that it relies on data provided by ICE, but also that it does not clarify the difference in sexual assault under Obama vs. Under Trump. It could show a difference under Trump vs. Biden (or rather, Trump’s first term), but I don’t think you really read the report.
Regardless, there is currently ongoing rapes in concentration camps under Trump II, and a fuckton more than this study shows under both, so I really don’t see how this proves me wrong. Thanks for confirmation.
You just can’t seem to choose whether it’s OK to quantify harm and advocate for harm reduction on that basis or whether harm is qualitative and cannot be reduced to simple numerical comparison.
Which is it: it’s disgusting to the tell the victims of sexual violence under Obama and Biden that Trump is presiding over more of it and that’s why it’s OK to vote for Ds, or it’s virtuous to vote lesser evil and harm reduction on a quantitative basis?
Did Biden prosecute the perpetrators of sexual violence against detained immigrants? Did he address the harm? Or did he ignore the harm?
It sounds to me like you are deeply attached to the idea that Democrats are NOT actively participating in the system and that the Republicans are. To me, the evidence is clear that this is a Good Cop / Bad Cop situation and they both work for the same department and you’re just being duped by the routine.
I think you are the only one confused. I do not think your data shows that rapes of children was somehow less under Biden. Or even that rapes were less. They kinda cart out those pregnant children every day out there in New Jersey.
The only thing I see you do is take no stance. And that is because you have the privilege to take none. Maybe no one you know is being hurt worse from the decision of others. I think you should feel lucky. You must have a great life.
No, I am taking a stance. You just don’t like it. My stance is that voting Democrat won’t save anyone, that the Democrats have demonstrated that they will not only oversee the same atrocities of the Republicans but that they will not punish the criminals and they will give the fascist more tools every time they get to elected. My stance is that the only way to protect our siblings and elders and children is to fight, in the streets, in the workplaces, in public, shut down the economy, and force the issue because historically it is the only thing that has ever worked in this country. Women’s suffrage, labor rights, civil rights, and gay rights all came from riots and strikes, not from banging pots and voting.