Wikipedia will tell you that it is pain and unpleasantness. But that is too shallow. That isn’t true suffering. To me, suffering is when thoughts start causing physical pain. When the prospect of death seems like the only escape. But sometimes not even death can stop suffering.
I’ve been thinking about this a lot. What is the nature, the purpose of suffering. And then, it hit me. Maybe the lack of a purpose is the problem? It is easier to take pain when we know when it will end, or when we know that it is a pain of healing. But when it is a destructive pain, or suffering without a purpose, then it is true suffering. Pain for the sake of pain, where nothing is gained and everything is lost. Is that the nature of suffering? I don’t know. I can’t say that I experienced true suffering on that level. I don’t think anyone has. Or at least they haven’t lived long enough to tell the tale.
Is being stuck upside down in a cave until you slowly die, knowing nobody will come to rescue you true suffering? Is being a victim of a terrible crime and not being able to ever get justice for it true suffering? Or is it something simpler?
I was never good with words. So please don’t blame me if I can’t fully define it. That is exactly why I ask this question. I invite you all to discuss the essence and the nature of suffering with me. I wish to understand.
DISCLAIMER: This is a philosophical question. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Life. Life itself is suffering. Life is the worst thing to have happened to anyone.
Regarding purpose, no one has any purpose. Purpose is assigned to tools; not to sentient beings with consciousness. Life is utterly meaningless, and it is due to this lack of meaning, that we search for superfluous things like purpose.
The true nature of life is suffering. The default state of life is pain. Everything you do from there is just to temporarily alleviate that pain. You keep doing that until you die.
We have friends and lovers because loneliness is painful. We eat because hunger is painful. We sleep because deprivation from it is painful. We laugh so that we can escape from crying.
People say suffering is a hurdle, and see it as something essential for character development, and whilst I acknowledge the essentiality of some types of pain, I also see it as something contingent on life. We suffer because we are alive. All sentient and conscious beings suffer. It just comes with life.
Note that I am not however, promoting termination of life. By terminating your life early, you would be depriving yourself of all the potential pleasures you could have had (regardless of the pain around them). Once you are here, your optimization problem should be maximization of pleasure and minimization of pain. So, whilst the asymmetry still exists, the potentiality for pleasure might (/should?) be enough of an reason to continue living. I do acknowledge that exceptions do exist where the asymmetry is so skewed for some, to the extent that there is little to no potential pleasure for them, in which case, it might be preferable for them to terminate their own life (think extremely painful chronic/terminal illnesses). I’m sorry if this feels a bit loosey-goosey.
With all that said, I believe we are all sufferers from the incurable disease of life. And the only thing to do from here is to vehemently struggle and rebel against suffering. To help our fellow sufferers and maximize the pleasurable moments. To do everything we can to cope with life whilst still being aware of the true suffering it stands for.
That is a very bleak perspective. By this logic, we can say that everything ever is meaningless.
Life of itself is not meaningless. It exists to test, create, and replicate patterns at a faster time scale than the regular processes of the universe. Meaning is usually assigned after the fact. Or at least that’s my experience.
Not necessarily. There can be meaning in suffering. You learn and change through it. And sometimes that’s a positive change.
I somewhat agree with you. The meaning you describe seems personal (correct me if I am wrong), i.e. we assign meaning to our own lives. The meaning I was referring to in my previous comment was a more absolute take on it; the kind of meaning people refer to when they are searching for it. From my perspective, people search for an all encompassing absolute meaning (or rather a guidebook) which tells them that they are here for something. I disagree with that perspective, and I think there is no such meaning or guidebook. We are not here for any grand purpose, we just exist because someone else got together and thought it’d be nice to be a parent (in the best of situations). I agree with you however, in that, we must assign meaning to our own lives, just so our lives won’t feel empty. It is more like drawing your own scenery on a canvas instead of looking for the perfect one.
I understand that this is a bleak perspective, but I see this as the true nature of suffering; and by acknowledging it, we can be more compassionate to our fellow sufferers. Although the perspective itself is bleak, the conclusion need not be. You can learn to live, stuff your life with pleasurable moments, and make the most of it, whilst helping others do the same.
I completely respect your perspective. But I do believe there is a meaning to life itself. Not just what we assign it. Even if there was no initial goal in life becoming a thing, now that it exists, it is tefined by its attributes. Evolution. Progress. Concentration of energy and resources. Engines of anti-entropy. That is the meaning of life. To me. It is the universe calling out to save itself from certain doom. That is the goal now. Survival. On an ultimate scale. But that is just my philosophy. I do not claim that it is the objective truth. But I do believe that it is the truth.
This doesn’t really explore the concept of suffering. Anyway, thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Suffering is an emotion, a mood, a state of mind.
The stimulus is almost irrelevant.That is a very vague description. I’m not asking for a definition. What does it mean to you personally? Is it simply a “state of mind”. If so, is it equal to other states of mind, and if yes, in what ways?
It’s just like happy, angry, sad, bored, content, nervous.
Suffering is an emotion. Nothing more complex than that.So, do you not understand your emotions? Are they just “things that happen” to you?
I’m not trying to be mean. And I’m sorry if I came off that way. I just want to understand.
Maybe I don’t know what you’re trying to understand.
Emotions do happen. Not sure what alternative you’re thinking of.Calling them things is only a convenient short hand. They aren’t tangible objects in any way. They’re patterns of neuron firing.
Reading your OP again. Some emotions may have a functional purpose, to guide useful behaviour, others may simply side-effects of having emotions at all. I’m not sure suffering would be one of the former. Sometimes people choose to make good of their suffering. Building character or what not. But that’s far from automatic. Often people gain nothing from suffering.
I am looking for the underlying cause of the emotions. I just want to understand your perspective. So do you see it as purely biological? A means to an end? Pain = Don’t do that. Pleasure = Do that a lot. Suffering = Avoid. Ecstasy = Seek. Is that it?
You ask about their cause, then give examples of their effects? It doesn’t seem you have a clear understanding of you’re curiosity. Of course that is another emotion, so it may make sense.
I admit, my grasp on the concept of language is tenuous at best. I am asking you what it is to you. My example was my understanding of your perspective. I assume I was not correct in assessing on what your perspective is. Or perhaps the example was not clear. It is an example of direct logic. “Pain->Discomfort->Avoiding stimulus” would be equal to “Experience->Emotion->Action”. Does that clarify my example, and is it anywhere near what your perspective on the matter is?
I highly recommend you look into Buddhism. This concept is explored in depth.
I’m not asking the Buddha about the nature of suffering. I’m asking you, the people. What is it to you?
Why are you asking?
Because I want to hear the answer. Why do people ask questions? Why do people seek second opinions from doctors? I’m asking for the exact same reason.
Attachment.
You mean as a concept or as in file? I assume a concept, since there are no file attachments or links here.
Attachment is definitely a cause of suffering, but it is not the essence of it. There can be suffering without attachment, and attachment without suffering.
How can there be suffering without attachment?
Physical pain is not caused by attachment. It could be caused, for example, by electricity, or perhaps a sharp object. No attachment needed.
And no, the physical body is not a form of attachment. It is a part of you just like the mind is. You literally cannot exist without some form of a body.
And what about suffering due to desease? Like having a very bad fever dream. Where’s the attachment there?
Do you get my perspective?
Physical pain is a signal in your brain telling you to stay away from electricity, sharp objects, and fire etc. It also tells you when something important for survival is absent like food leading to hunger headaches.
So basically all physical pain is caused by you (the brain) being attached to survival.
Physical pain has a huge emotional component. That’s why we can train pain tolerance. Placebos and holding a loved one is sometimes as effective as morphine in reducing pain.
So all in all suffering is due to attachment. If you let go of the attachment by training your mind you can end suffering. That’s what Buddhism is all about.
Are we mixing philosophy and biology? Because this way we can explain all emotional states we experience. I do not disagree with this perspective, but I do not believe it is the whole truth. If we let go of all attachments in this perspective, we let go of life itself. And that is not a valid solution in my view. Since there are other ways to avoid suffering, I do not see attachment as the main cause of it. Attachment can actually alleviate suffering in some cases.
