- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- politicalmemes@lemmy.world
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Goddam, the propagandized shitlibs descended on this in force to blurt out the usual preprogrammed mantras (“human nature!” “the Nordic model!” “AES is evil!”). @K1nsey6@lemmy.world can we get some of this reactionary propaganda purged?
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Full communism is shit because by definition a few people decide what acceptable for everyone to live
Where is that definition? The way I understand “full communism”, is basically anarchism and equality, absence of private property. Common means of production I.e. (and this is probably why it’s having a bad reputation) the opposite of autocratism as you seem to define it.
I even dare to say we never had anything close to it on a bigger scale (probably because it doesn’t fit in human nature).
Maybe we need to settle into some kind of middle ground, where people are allowed to own stuff
You’re right that we shouldn’t necessarily be looking at extreme ends of any spectrum, but this isn’t a thing. Communism has issue with private goods - goods owned BY A COMPANY/STATE used to make profit. It has no issue with PERSONAL goods - things an individual owns and uses.
I get the knee jerk reaction to the extreme positions, but it’s best to characterize both correctly, instead of relying on literally the propaganda talking point of “there’s no personal owners under communism”.
At the end of the day is doesn’t matter what -ism you prefer, they all suffer for corruption and rot.
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yeah I hear you, as European is very tiresome and surprising to listen to the USA binary logic… I just hope is “just” the online USA people, otherwise they are cooked (although it would explain the second victory of trump)
The more I learn about different systems of government the more it seems clear the best one would be a mixture of a couple different ones.
that’s why governments should act as a counterweight to capitalism by redistributing ressources
Pretty much every time someone offers an extreme as a solution it’s a case of “easy answers to hard problems”. The real optimal solution is almost always very nuanced, but dumb people just latch onto extremes because they’re easier to understand.
Take farming as an example. Under the Soviet Union it was a textbook communism command system, and it was insanely inefficient with massive food shortages. But conversely you don’t want it to be 100% privatized either because then it will devolve into a few mega monopolies that just grow cash crops like almonds which destroy the local ecosystems.
Ideally there would be a combination of private farmers with government oversight to prevent negative social externalities. But your average Fox News junkie or tankie doesn’t have the patience or rationality to understand that.
Schrodinger’s Soviet Union, simultaneously starving AND eating better than Americans
That… Is not what bleys said at all…
And hold on… Are you seriously just using 1983 as proof that there were never mass food shortages in the USSR? Because that’s a hell of a picked cherry there.
Vavilov would turn in his grave, if he were actually given a proper grave, and if he had any muscles remaining after Stalin starved him to death in a Gulag for trying to solve the USSR’s famine problem.
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@Bleys@lemmy.world fumbled the mention in my prev comment, so making sure I’m not stealth-mentioning you
Edit: this was literally the most concilliatory take of all time and still got censored. HELLO CRINGE DEPT??
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They literally always are
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No one has really tried socialism, except for the rich for some shitty reason.
Several socialist states have and do exist. State assistance in capitalism is not socialism for the rich, it’s just the class nature of the state within capitalism.
No, and as usual liberals love to infantilize people they disagree with. There is no good mix of socialism/communism and capitalism, they are polar opposites on the political scale.
Yes … There is no way to adopt socil principals into a market economy … I mean social security cant be done ? And worker coops (aka the means of Produktion being controller by workers aka communism) cant exist in capitalism …
/s just to make sure …
It can temporarily but what is happening to all of those things (dismantling of social pension, destruction of unions, continually rolling back labor rights, etc) is an inherent and natural conclusion of capitalism
By accruing capital as the goal you will inherently incentivize consolidation and open many avenues for corruption. Even if you said “capitalism but no billionaires” or some other regulation all it takes is time. People who reach the max will cheat to gain even more, whether that’s hiding wealth, exerting pressure on politicians to change laws to their favor, etc. you’re handing control of the state to the wealthy
The things you described happen in spite of capitalism and the natural conclusion is that they will be dismantled to serve a select few extremely greedy individuals who would rather increase net wealth by 0.02% than stop scores of people from suffering
That is very much not a necessity - it is out current Situation and it is easy to think/feel it is ‘inevitable’ but we shoukdnt forget that Ehen the industrial Revolution (and therby the Basis of modern capitalism) bot rolling 90℅ of people in those countries Were Leading lives in (to us) unimaginable squalor and in basically all countries the buttom 2/3 of the countries Were either not allowed to vote or had their votes count less than that of the rich.
Still they managed to achieve better wages more democracy, coops that still persist to this day (e.g. the Genossenschaftsbanken in Germany, Migros in switzerland, Mondragon in Spain, and many more) , social security and much more. It is within living memory thst the top marginal taxrate in the US was 90% It may feel inevitable that capital concentrates at the top but it isnt - the time before World war 1 and especially the time after world war 2 show that And it is defeatist to assume that change cannot be attained just cause it is hard.
Wait, so you are saying that government cannot balance the two? There has been no successful balancing of capitalist and socialist principles in any country in our existence?
Correct.
Effectively managing an empire off the backs of third world labor is not “success”.
No, society cannot have 2 entities that own the means of their production. It either belongs to the working class or it doesn’t.
I agree about the infantalizing part, but not the mixing. There can and should be different factions able to secure space for how people want to live. Majority rule with respect to the minority. Communes should be just as enabled to exist as other groupings, organizations, and jurisdictions.
Read “The Brothers”, about John Foster and Alan Dulles.
This has everything you need to know about why you, if you’re an American, think the things you do.
Americentrism
Doesn’t matter where you live, US culture and politics affects you. That’s just how global empires work, it’s not anything-centric to recognize verifiable facts.
that and watching the soviet version of it crash and burn
latest epstein distraction. McArthy hearings will legitimize more anti-communist ai data-centers. it’s the new woke label
The CIA provided initial backing for every major group that currently shapes the information the public receives. FB, google, Oracle (originally a CIA project headed by Ellison); Palantir, I’m sure the AI big boys as well. Not so secret VC fund called In Q Tel. It’s why they’re all mask off fascists now; it’s also why moderate dems are almost worse than the out and proud fascists
The CIA provided initial backing for every major group that currently shapes the information the public receives. FB, google, Oracle (originally a CIA project headed by Ellison); Palantir, I’m sure the AI big boys as well. Not so secret VC fund called In Q Tel. It’s why they’re all mask off fascists now; it’s also why moderate dems are almost worse than the out and proud fascists
Capitalists always love to come out of the woodwork to defend it whenever someone discusses communism as a good thing.
It doesn’t matter. China is rapidly outpacing the US and material reality will force people to reevaluate the lies fed to them by the CIA.
Chinamaxxing can’t be stopped. People will look at them and say “I want a society like theirs” and there’s nothing propaganda can do.
All these stupid beliefs people have will evaporate into nothing in the face of Chinese people having healthier, happier, longer lives.
I hate communism, because I was born in a communist country and had a horrible childhood.
which one?
Your shitty childhood had nothing to do with communism, get a therapist
Idk, I know a few people that had pretty traumatic childhood experiences. Like my close friend whose family got evicted from their flat on Christmas because some local official noticed that they had four rooms for two adults and a child younger than three years old and they should have a maximum of three. A few months later he turned three and they would have been within the margin but that wasn’t important to the official in charge so he had the cops knock on Christmas because that tradition had to be ignored, too.
Sounds like capitalism
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I’m saying that this story is 100% fictional and that thousands of people experience the real thing all over the capitalist world every single day
Was it actual communism, or a communism for everyone apart from this group of special people in government
I’m sure you know it’s the second one. All of them are.
There in the history of the world has been no communist countries, there’s been govs that self-identify as one, but they all missed the core thing - no Bourgeoisie
Ahh yes. The goalpost movements
No, that’s the actual, textbook definition.
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Most countries they say are communist are socialist and all have had the CIA interfere with them heavily to ensure their eventual collapse.
Not just the CIA but “business” leaders everywhere.
and whatever it was before the cia
Russian here. Some people hate communism because they lived through that shit, and didn’t like it.
(Can’t say I like what came afterwards either heh.)
