You mention Schumer being a Dem who acts like a Pub, as if he is a fringe member of the party and not a DNC leader. How can you view Democrats as “sometimes good policy, sometimes very bad policy” when someone like Schumer has been in leadership for decades? The fish rots from the head, so to speak.
I think your framing of Obama (and then Biden)‘s immigration policies is generous to the point of dishonesty. Let’s assume you are right and Obama’s second term was gentler and wiser and only went after bad guys; and we both agree on the definition of a bad guy. Biden’s term, after seeing what Trump did with ICE, made no effort to put in guardrails while continuing Obama’s second-term enlightened immigration actions (again, for the sake of argument, I’m agreeing with your point; in fact, ICE under Biden illegally deported an American citizen right before the midterms, but I digress).
At what point do you fault blue presidents for not lifting a finger to stop future red presidents from being able to do so much damage from the executive branch? Obama was the constitutional professor who was going to fix the Bush administration’s power grab. Instead, he ruled as if he had adopted the Unified Executive theory when he swore the oath at the inauguration.
Coming back to reality, how do you square the Democrats’ push for a Biden immigration bill just as draconian as any Republican proposal, particularly throwing DACA recipients under the bus, with your claim that Dems are better on policy?
Codifying Roe would have made reversing it much harder. You mentioned gay marriage. Do you see how much further SCOTUS has to go to knock down that law than it did with Roe? They literally would still be trying to move in that direction instead of being years into the decision. Any thoughts on Biden not doing anything to counter Dobbs, even though the ruling was leaked before the decision was announced? The old bastard failed to respond; instead, as I said, he spoke to a room full of donors about not supporting “abortion on demand”. Like, when the fuck are they supposed to happen, when the mom doesn’t want one?
Any thoughts on how having a Democratic president at that moment was any better than having a Republican?
You didn’t address Obama’s flip-flop on gay marriage in your paragraph on gay marriage. Not sure what you are trying to say there other than Obama was a reactionary president, something I fully agree with and hold against him. That is exactly how W was.
Again, we end where we have been landing. We both think Republicans are ‘demons’. I think Democrats are demons with better PR. You think they are good-faith actors, ineffective at preventing demons from being demonic. So my last question is, why support them if they are not good at battling the demons?
PS: I appreciate the time you have taken to debate an anonymous malcontent on the internet.
I think the DNC is generally a bad org, but I generally like the policy from democrats. Same as how I really don’t like how DSA leadership runs apologia for Russia and says other stuff I find really whacky, but some people in the dsa are great candidates.
I wish I lived in the world you’re describing where Republicans care even a tiny bit about guardrails, the only reason they wouldn’t reverse gay marriage is because even among Republicans that’s really not very popular. They literally break the constitution nonstop with deporting people with no trial, send the national guard because it’s an “emergency” that people are sitting in frog costumes protesting, trump breaks every law and the constitution at breakneck speed, and the supreme court gives a stern " " in response. They literally do not care even a little bit about the law. If we had a sane Republican party I would probably agree with you they should’ve codified things like immigration reform and roe v wade, and say the democrats are at fault, but maga literally doesn’t care even a little bit so long as they can get away with it without a countrywide revolt. Imo it would’ve made either 0 difference or it would’ve been another item on the 9000 articles about how trump broke another law. For biden’s comment on it, I think he has clearly shown a pro-choice record, and he was speaking to the concern of maga propagandists saying leftists want day before birth abortions, which would be very unpopular even among democrats. A republican would’ve said “yeah we’re moving to ban abortion” and then actually do it, like they did.
I can agree I don’t like the immigration policies of democrats either, and at certain times it was abhorrent, but voters in America are extremely racist, and most people see brown come in = president is doing a bad job, so the president and the senate are going to pass bills that reflect that. What Trump and the Republicans are doing is just evil for the sake of being evil, pulling illegals who had committed no crimes for years out of their homes, causing people to die in inhumane conditions, killing Americans, deporting Americans (several times), increasing the ICE budget to unbelievable amounts and essentially running around America causing terror with masked thugs. It’s like the worst situation with Obama but 4x as much, at least the kids in cages weren’t being killed with tainted food and water, and it was nowhere near the scale of terror for everyone as it is now.
I guess my point with obamna was, a lot of the bad policy from the dems is because that’s what their constituents wanted, and sometimes those people are morons but we live in a democracy. The people in the senate will reflect the anti-gay sentiment, and you can’t just decree something even if you think it’s right. To be honest even there the blame is majorly on Republicans for spreading lies about gay and trans people being weird and unnatural, which the democrats would almost always say the opposite.
I just see when democrats are in power, things I like happen, along with things I don’t like. For instance more rights for trans people (even though this is still very divisive and is hard to get bills passed), more solar and wind, more regulations, higher corporate taxes, restrictions on power for large corporations, less support for world leaders I find evil, less playing games with the wording of the law, more social safety nets (obamacare was a massive bill for instance), more support for families and schools. When Republicans are in power, I can’t name 1 thing that they do that I like, literally not one, and almost all I find abjectly evil. If I have the choice between evil demon and ineffective against the demon but often passes policy I really like, I will be the biggest cheerleader for the loser who gets bullied but is generally doing things I support.
PS: I appreciate the time you have taken to debate an anonymous malcontent on the internet.
Hey I just really care about this, and I feel like democrats get fair criticism for some atrocious things they do, but not enough credit for the real fighting many dems are doing, who end up getting lumped in with the maga-lites. I think people don’t realize how racist and close-minded many Americans really are, and how hard dems have to work against the snake oil propaganda that Republicans have successfully sold for years. It’s a battle against 24/7 propaganda, where the dems have to sell you on a harsh reality while the Republicans promise you everything. I complain about dems caving on the government shutdown, but 90% of dems stood firm and said “we’re not passing these dogshit cuts to medicare/Medicaid so billionaires can keep more money. Reach across the aisle you fucks.” It’s always the same group of maga-lite losers who cave to everything.
Please give me some examples of good policies passed by the DNC. All I can think of are the right-of-center policies that have been forced upon us all, like Obamacare. There may be a few good ones, but they are few and far between, in my opinion. Why hasn’t one democrat highlighted how far back the W Bush administration retarted stem cell therapies, which, once Obama’s executive order reversed W’s policies, have helped millions of Americans with their health? It’s like, even when they actually do something right, they pivot to unwinnable talking points.
Where did I describe a world where Republicans cared about guardrails? I’m confused by this paragraph. They don’t like them and will tear them down if they can. In instances where they have been successful in tearing them down, it is because Democrats have stood by and let them, in some cases actually helped them. Democrats, after the W Bush administration, should have made a point out of creating guardrails that are hard to destroy. Imagine if Obama’s “we tortured some folks” speech had ended in warrants for the arrests of the officials who wrote the memos and those who followed them? Those people, at the very least, would not be available to join the Trump administration. Imagine if Obama’s solution to indefinite detention was ending the GWoT instead of using signature drone strikes to kill instead of capture targets? There is no path for Trump to operate his “narco terror” illegal boat strikes. However you believe about Republicans, they could not have done it without the Democrats.
Republican policies poll very low, but since most voters vote by color, those unpopular policies get passed. Progressive policies poll very highly, even among Republicans, but are stifled by the DNC. Instead of trying to win over the unwinnable, Dems should target the eligible voter who stays home, instead of trying to suppress those votes because they might go third party, as AOC did.
Popular or not, gay marriage is next to be overturned, just like abortion, and the republicans who have gay friends and family will support the reversal. A democrat who is a sharp contrast to the republican agenda will be able to frame these issues the way pollsters do. Let’s talk about DACA and how immigration is the only reason why the country grows. Let’s stop addressing bad faith arguments like the one you mentioned about aborting a 9-month-old fetus as a form of birth control, which doesn’t happen. Even your general examples of the things Democrats do that you like are highly flawed. Biden’s enviornemtal polices were GOP circa 2000, where they pretend to have to balance the needs of an energy company with the need of all humans to live in a climate that isn’t actively trying to kill human life. A vast majority of climate scientists agree we are past the point of compromising on this shit, and the blue team is pretending like it isn’t urgent.
Had Obama governed as he campaigned, ICE would not have existed for Trump to use for his “the pain is the point” style of immigration policy. Had Biden governed as he campaigned, Trump would have been prosecuted immediately upon Biden taking office, and the MAGA movement would have shrunk. The continued support from people who know better but refuse to vote as if they have more than two choices means we are going to be stuck in the ratchet effect, which is the best analogy I can think of for US policy since at least JFK.
As for your “evil” world leaders comment, that smacks of American propaganda. Show me an evil world leader, and I will show you someone who has stood up to an American business agenda that would have made their country worse off, or a leader from a country that we committed gross crimes against humanity.
You mention Schumer being a Dem who acts like a Pub, as if he is a fringe member of the party and not a DNC leader. How can you view Democrats as “sometimes good policy, sometimes very bad policy” when someone like Schumer has been in leadership for decades? The fish rots from the head, so to speak.
I think your framing of Obama (and then Biden)‘s immigration policies is generous to the point of dishonesty. Let’s assume you are right and Obama’s second term was gentler and wiser and only went after bad guys; and we both agree on the definition of a bad guy. Biden’s term, after seeing what Trump did with ICE, made no effort to put in guardrails while continuing Obama’s second-term enlightened immigration actions (again, for the sake of argument, I’m agreeing with your point; in fact, ICE under Biden illegally deported an American citizen right before the midterms, but I digress). At what point do you fault blue presidents for not lifting a finger to stop future red presidents from being able to do so much damage from the executive branch? Obama was the constitutional professor who was going to fix the Bush administration’s power grab. Instead, he ruled as if he had adopted the Unified Executive theory when he swore the oath at the inauguration. Coming back to reality, how do you square the Democrats’ push for a Biden immigration bill just as draconian as any Republican proposal, particularly throwing DACA recipients under the bus, with your claim that Dems are better on policy?
Codifying Roe would have made reversing it much harder. You mentioned gay marriage. Do you see how much further SCOTUS has to go to knock down that law than it did with Roe? They literally would still be trying to move in that direction instead of being years into the decision. Any thoughts on Biden not doing anything to counter Dobbs, even though the ruling was leaked before the decision was announced? The old bastard failed to respond; instead, as I said, he spoke to a room full of donors about not supporting “abortion on demand”. Like, when the fuck are they supposed to happen, when the mom doesn’t want one? Any thoughts on how having a Democratic president at that moment was any better than having a Republican?
You didn’t address Obama’s flip-flop on gay marriage in your paragraph on gay marriage. Not sure what you are trying to say there other than Obama was a reactionary president, something I fully agree with and hold against him. That is exactly how W was.
Again, we end where we have been landing. We both think Republicans are ‘demons’. I think Democrats are demons with better PR. You think they are good-faith actors, ineffective at preventing demons from being demonic. So my last question is, why support them if they are not good at battling the demons?
PS: I appreciate the time you have taken to debate an anonymous malcontent on the internet.
I think the DNC is generally a bad org, but I generally like the policy from democrats. Same as how I really don’t like how DSA leadership runs apologia for Russia and says other stuff I find really whacky, but some people in the dsa are great candidates.
I wish I lived in the world you’re describing where Republicans care even a tiny bit about guardrails, the only reason they wouldn’t reverse gay marriage is because even among Republicans that’s really not very popular. They literally break the constitution nonstop with deporting people with no trial, send the national guard because it’s an “emergency” that people are sitting in frog costumes protesting, trump breaks every law and the constitution at breakneck speed, and the supreme court gives a stern " " in response. They literally do not care even a little bit about the law. If we had a sane Republican party I would probably agree with you they should’ve codified things like immigration reform and roe v wade, and say the democrats are at fault, but maga literally doesn’t care even a little bit so long as they can get away with it without a countrywide revolt. Imo it would’ve made either 0 difference or it would’ve been another item on the 9000 articles about how trump broke another law. For biden’s comment on it, I think he has clearly shown a pro-choice record, and he was speaking to the concern of maga propagandists saying leftists want day before birth abortions, which would be very unpopular even among democrats. A republican would’ve said “yeah we’re moving to ban abortion” and then actually do it, like they did.
I can agree I don’t like the immigration policies of democrats either, and at certain times it was abhorrent, but voters in America are extremely racist, and most people see brown come in = president is doing a bad job, so the president and the senate are going to pass bills that reflect that. What Trump and the Republicans are doing is just evil for the sake of being evil, pulling illegals who had committed no crimes for years out of their homes, causing people to die in inhumane conditions, killing Americans, deporting Americans (several times), increasing the ICE budget to unbelievable amounts and essentially running around America causing terror with masked thugs. It’s like the worst situation with Obama but 4x as much, at least the kids in cages weren’t being killed with tainted food and water, and it was nowhere near the scale of terror for everyone as it is now.
I guess my point with obamna was, a lot of the bad policy from the dems is because that’s what their constituents wanted, and sometimes those people are morons but we live in a democracy. The people in the senate will reflect the anti-gay sentiment, and you can’t just decree something even if you think it’s right. To be honest even there the blame is majorly on Republicans for spreading lies about gay and trans people being weird and unnatural, which the democrats would almost always say the opposite.
I just see when democrats are in power, things I like happen, along with things I don’t like. For instance more rights for trans people (even though this is still very divisive and is hard to get bills passed), more solar and wind, more regulations, higher corporate taxes, restrictions on power for large corporations, less support for world leaders I find evil, less playing games with the wording of the law, more social safety nets (obamacare was a massive bill for instance), more support for families and schools. When Republicans are in power, I can’t name 1 thing that they do that I like, literally not one, and almost all I find abjectly evil. If I have the choice between evil demon and ineffective against the demon but often passes policy I really like, I will be the biggest cheerleader for the loser who gets bullied but is generally doing things I support.
Hey I just really care about this, and I feel like democrats get fair criticism for some atrocious things they do, but not enough credit for the real fighting many dems are doing, who end up getting lumped in with the maga-lites. I think people don’t realize how racist and close-minded many Americans really are, and how hard dems have to work against the snake oil propaganda that Republicans have successfully sold for years. It’s a battle against 24/7 propaganda, where the dems have to sell you on a harsh reality while the Republicans promise you everything. I complain about dems caving on the government shutdown, but 90% of dems stood firm and said “we’re not passing these dogshit cuts to medicare/Medicaid so billionaires can keep more money. Reach across the aisle you fucks.” It’s always the same group of maga-lite losers who cave to everything.
Please give me some examples of good policies passed by the DNC. All I can think of are the right-of-center policies that have been forced upon us all, like Obamacare. There may be a few good ones, but they are few and far between, in my opinion. Why hasn’t one democrat highlighted how far back the W Bush administration retarted stem cell therapies, which, once Obama’s executive order reversed W’s policies, have helped millions of Americans with their health? It’s like, even when they actually do something right, they pivot to unwinnable talking points.
Where did I describe a world where Republicans cared about guardrails? I’m confused by this paragraph. They don’t like them and will tear them down if they can. In instances where they have been successful in tearing them down, it is because Democrats have stood by and let them, in some cases actually helped them. Democrats, after the W Bush administration, should have made a point out of creating guardrails that are hard to destroy. Imagine if Obama’s “we tortured some folks” speech had ended in warrants for the arrests of the officials who wrote the memos and those who followed them? Those people, at the very least, would not be available to join the Trump administration. Imagine if Obama’s solution to indefinite detention was ending the GWoT instead of using signature drone strikes to kill instead of capture targets? There is no path for Trump to operate his “narco terror” illegal boat strikes. However you believe about Republicans, they could not have done it without the Democrats.
Republican policies poll very low, but since most voters vote by color, those unpopular policies get passed. Progressive policies poll very highly, even among Republicans, but are stifled by the DNC. Instead of trying to win over the unwinnable, Dems should target the eligible voter who stays home, instead of trying to suppress those votes because they might go third party, as AOC did. Popular or not, gay marriage is next to be overturned, just like abortion, and the republicans who have gay friends and family will support the reversal. A democrat who is a sharp contrast to the republican agenda will be able to frame these issues the way pollsters do. Let’s talk about DACA and how immigration is the only reason why the country grows. Let’s stop addressing bad faith arguments like the one you mentioned about aborting a 9-month-old fetus as a form of birth control, which doesn’t happen. Even your general examples of the things Democrats do that you like are highly flawed. Biden’s enviornemtal polices were GOP circa 2000, where they pretend to have to balance the needs of an energy company with the need of all humans to live in a climate that isn’t actively trying to kill human life. A vast majority of climate scientists agree we are past the point of compromising on this shit, and the blue team is pretending like it isn’t urgent.
Had Obama governed as he campaigned, ICE would not have existed for Trump to use for his “the pain is the point” style of immigration policy. Had Biden governed as he campaigned, Trump would have been prosecuted immediately upon Biden taking office, and the MAGA movement would have shrunk. The continued support from people who know better but refuse to vote as if they have more than two choices means we are going to be stuck in the ratchet effect, which is the best analogy I can think of for US policy since at least JFK.
As for your “evil” world leaders comment, that smacks of American propaganda. Show me an evil world leader, and I will show you someone who has stood up to an American business agenda that would have made their country worse off, or a leader from a country that we committed gross crimes against humanity.