And what about roles outside of the military? When was the last time you contributed to slavery or child exploitation with your purchases? How about your employer?
Just wanted to make sure since people in this thread seem to be taking a holier-than-thou stance. As above:
Would it be okay, then, for me to rob, torture, and kill your family if it was the only way for me to get higher education (i.e. something that is not necessary to live)? What about the families these monsters kill that won’t be able to receive higher education on account of being dead or kidnapped?
If we’re talking about more than just service members who directly engage in combat and are including non-combat roles (cook, mail clerk), then the answer has to be yes.
my industry - firefighting and software engineering for healthcare is, particularly quite different than being a part of an organization that has a monopoly on violence. additionally, that same org has me living under capitalism, from birth. so try again with your reductio.
the adults who volunteer to join that violent organization are certainly much more guilty than others who choose not to join.
your attempt at this false equivalency is just trollish and serves to show exactly how much you enjoy the taste of uncle sam’s boot.
And what of the firefighters and software engineers (and healthcare professionals) who just so happen to be doing those things in the military? You doing them in the civilian sector is somehow a morally superior choice? You as a firefighter are quite literally in the business of protecting the property of capitalists. You are just as much a protector of capitalism and the capitalist class as any person in the military. I’m not going to assume you’re an American, but needless to say your involvement in the healthcare industry is arguably just as problematic as military service if you are.
That doesn’t even get into your consumption habits. Do you consume animals products? How about products that are constructed with exploited labor, even slaves? Child labor? How about the products you consume that are irresponsibly produced from an environmental perspective?
But, hey, I’m glad you’re able to live with the choices you’ve made. We all must. It’s just a shame that you’ve deluded yourself into thinking you’re somehow more innocent than others based on those same flawed choices.
And what of the firefighters and software engineers (and healthcare professionals) who just so happen to be doing those things in the military?
They are contributing to military tasks the goal of which is subjugation of non-white people. Programming avionics so that planes can bomb Iran, fighting fires on carriers, etc. is unambiguously evil.
You doing them in the civilian sector is somehow a morally superior choice?
If we exclude doing such things for NATO military and espionage organisations, then it almost always is, yes.
You are just as much a protector of capitalism and the capitalist class as any person in the military
Lol no. If you can’t see the difference between stopping fires from killing civilians or destroying buildings/non-military equipment, and directly contributing to things like subjugating Iran or defending invaders of Iraq and Iran from retaliation, you need to go to primary school or something.
your involvement in the healthcare industry is arguably just as problematic as military service if you are.
How so?
Do you consume animals products?
This is probably the closest you have made to a compelling point. However, in this case you would have to attack the people involved in meat production first, rather than people who merely consume those products.
Same goes for the other points in that paragraph.
Also, you do have to contend with the fact that those people were enslaved because of NATO’s military.
There is a massive difference between cooking meals for schoolchildren and making sure that military personnel can function to achieve their objectives of subjugating non-white people.
For the average person in either role, both are just a job. You just happen to prefer one to another, personally. Further, public education is one of the most fascist institutions in democratic countries. Unless, of course, you somehow think it isn’t fascist for the state to decide the curriculum that every child is forced to learn, segregate children based on age, and coerce them into obeying the whims of whatever state employee happens to be their teacher.
For the average person in either role, both are just a job.
We are not talking about their own perception of what they do.
You just happen to prefer one to another, personally.
What is word is that you do not prefer cooking meals for schoolchildren to making sure NATO’s occasions, genocides and the like are completed.
Unless, of course, you somehow think it isn’t fascist for the state to decide the curriculum that every child is forced to learn, segregate children based on age, …
Ah yes, education. What horror. Very comparable to killing children overseas. /s
and coerce them into obeying the whims of whatever state employee happens to be their teacher.
Obeying their whims, rather than actual instructions - yes. And such teachers are, indeed, bad and should be punished. Do you think otherwise?
Consumption of products is the furthest one can be from participation in such things in many cases, or not far off.
Completely disagree. There’s an important caveat: Necessary consumption of products is the furthest one can be from participation. Most of the consumption done in the western world is not necessary.
Honestly ridiculous how you try to equate these things.
That’s okay. I don’t necessarily expect someone to condemn themselves.
Completely disagree. There’s an important caveat: Necessary consumption of products is the furthest one can be from participation.
We already know that you pretend that buying a product made by NATO is just as bad as being a torturer in Abu Ghraib.
Simply consuming things is, indeed, either the furthest one can be from relevant participation, or not far off. The fact that you keep equivocating that with going overseas to murder children simply betrays that you do not see people outside of NATO as people.
Also, you even think that consumers of meat are more at fault for producing meat than the people involved in producing meat, which is extremely silly.
That’s okay. I don’t necessarily expect someone to condemn themselves.
Cute, especially considering that I do not live in “the western world” (i.e. the Imperial Core), and neither does most of the world whom you claim it’s okay to invade. “It’s just as bad to buy meat as it is to orchestrate Highways of Death”, lol.
not a strawman. literally every role in the military is involved in the murder of children. every. single. role.
And what about roles outside of the military? When was the last time you contributed to slavery or child exploitation with your purchases? How about your employer?
two things can be true at once.
Just wanted to make sure since people in this thread seem to be taking a holier-than-thou stance. As above:
If we’re talking about more than just service members who directly engage in combat and are including non-combat roles (cook, mail clerk), then the answer has to be yes.
the cook is just as guilty as the sniper, yes. i agree.
Which makes you also as guilty as the cook. Unless, of course, you live off the grid, homestead, and are entirely self-sufficient.
my industry - firefighting and software engineering for healthcare is, particularly quite different than being a part of an organization that has a monopoly on violence. additionally, that same org has me living under capitalism, from birth. so try again with your reductio.
the adults who volunteer to join that violent organization are certainly much more guilty than others who choose not to join.
your attempt at this false equivalency is just trollish and serves to show exactly how much you enjoy the taste of uncle sam’s boot.
And what of the firefighters and software engineers (and healthcare professionals) who just so happen to be doing those things in the military? You doing them in the civilian sector is somehow a morally superior choice? You as a firefighter are quite literally in the business of protecting the property of capitalists. You are just as much a protector of capitalism and the capitalist class as any person in the military. I’m not going to assume you’re an American, but needless to say your involvement in the healthcare industry is arguably just as problematic as military service if you are.
That doesn’t even get into your consumption habits. Do you consume animals products? How about products that are constructed with exploited labor, even slaves? Child labor? How about the products you consume that are irresponsibly produced from an environmental perspective?
But, hey, I’m glad you’re able to live with the choices you’ve made. We all must. It’s just a shame that you’ve deluded yourself into thinking you’re somehow more innocent than others based on those same flawed choices.
They are contributing to military tasks the goal of which is subjugation of non-white people. Programming avionics so that planes can bomb Iran, fighting fires on carriers, etc. is unambiguously evil.
If we exclude doing such things for NATO military and espionage organisations, then it almost always is, yes.
Lol no. If you can’t see the difference between stopping fires from killing civilians or destroying buildings/non-military equipment, and directly contributing to things like subjugating Iran or defending invaders of Iraq and Iran from retaliation, you need to go to primary school or something.
How so?
This is probably the closest you have made to a compelling point. However, in this case you would have to attack the people involved in meat production first, rather than people who merely consume those products.
Same goes for the other points in that paragraph.
Also, you do have to contend with the fact that those people were enslaved because of NATO’s military.
There is a massive difference between cooking meals for schoolchildren and making sure that military personnel can function to achieve their objectives of subjugating non-white people.
For the average person in either role, both are just a job. You just happen to prefer one to another, personally. Further, public education is one of the most fascist institutions in democratic countries. Unless, of course, you somehow think it isn’t fascist for the state to decide the curriculum that every child is forced to learn, segregate children based on age, and coerce them into obeying the whims of whatever state employee happens to be their teacher.
We are not talking about their own perception of what they do.
What is word is that you do not prefer cooking meals for schoolchildren to making sure NATO’s occasions, genocides and the like are completed.
Ah yes, education. What horror. Very comparable to killing children overseas. /s
Obeying their whims, rather than actual instructions - yes. And such teachers are, indeed, bad and should be punished. Do you think otherwise?
You are equating purchasing things with directly participating in the most vile military on the planet.
I hate to break it to you, but your consumption of unethical products is also direct participation in the unethical production of said products.
Consumption of products is the furthest one can be from participation in such things in many cases, or not far off.
Unlike working in a NATO military.
Honestly ridiculous how you try to equate these things.
Completely disagree. There’s an important caveat: Necessary consumption of products is the furthest one can be from participation. Most of the consumption done in the western world is not necessary.
That’s okay. I don’t necessarily expect someone to condemn themselves.
We already know that you pretend that buying a product made by NATO is just as bad as being a torturer in Abu Ghraib.
Simply consuming things is, indeed, either the furthest one can be from relevant participation, or not far off. The fact that you keep equivocating that with going overseas to murder children simply betrays that you do not see people outside of NATO as people.
Also, you even think that consumers of meat are more at fault for producing meat than the people involved in producing meat, which is extremely silly.
Cute, especially considering that I do not live in “the western world” (i.e. the Imperial Core), and neither does most of the world whom you claim it’s okay to invade. “It’s just as bad to buy meat as it is to orchestrate Highways of Death”, lol.