• mechoman444@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    42 seconds ago

    I want to be clear about something before anyone interprets this as me defending Trump: I am not a Trump supporter. I consider him one of the worst presidents in U.S. history, and I have very little interest in defending either him or his political agenda.

    That is precisely why I have a problem with memes like this being presented as factual arguments.

    The USS Abraham Lincoln really did return to port after an extraordinarily long deployment. The photograph is real, and the ship genuinely looks rough after spending months at sea. But using that photograph as evidence that Trump somehow left the U.S. military looking like this is misleading. The Lincoln had just completed a 286 day deployment, including roughly 208 consecutive days at sea and about 200 days in a combat zone. That is actually a far more legitimate thing to criticize. Keeping a carrier and its crew deployed for that length of time raises serious questions about operational tempo, maintenance, readiness, crew fatigue, and the strain being placed on the Navy. Those are substantive criticisms that deserve discussion.

    Instead, we get this stupid little meme that takes a completely legitimate photograph, strips away all of its context, and presents it as though it is evidence of something it does not actually demonstrate. That is intentionally misleading the people who see it, and then encouraging them to repeat the misinformation because it supports an agenda.

    That’s the problem I keep seeing on Lemmy: a legitimate political point gets wrapped in misinformation because the misinformation makes the meme more effective. People then repeat it because it supports a conclusion they already agree with.

    I don’t think that’s acceptable simply because the target is Trump.

    One of the things that infuriates me about Trump and his political movement is their willingness to manipulate facts, exploit outrage, selectively present information, and construct narratives that are technically based on something real while being fundamentally misleading. We shouldn’t respond to that by adopting the same tactics.

    If we believe our position is actually stronger, then we should be able to make the argument honestly.

    You can criticize Trump’s claims about “rebuilding the military.” You can criticize defense spending, procurement failures, maintenance problems, military readiness, the defense industrial complex, or the extraordinary deployment demands being placed on the Navy. There are plenty of legitimate arguments to make.

    We don’t need to manufacture evidence to make those arguments.

    If our standard becomes “misinformation is acceptable when it hurts the people we dislike,” then we’ve abandoned the very standard we’re supposedly defending. Worse, we’ve made ourselves vulnerable to exactly the same rhetorical tactics when they’re used against us.

    Being better than Trump and his political movement means more than disagreeing with them. It means refusing to become comfortable with the methods we condemn when they’re politically convenient.

  • clucose@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    2
    ·
    58 minutes ago

    Seawater is really aggressive. I don’t think this really a big issue as everyone makes out of this.

  • EmptyAsparagus@piefed.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    6
    ·
    3 hours ago

    wow, maybe the military need more money to fix up their stuff. the only cause of this could be lack of funding, right? right?

    • BilSabab@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      2 hours ago

      military tend to have some of the most creative accounting so no matter how much it is always not enough even though by all metrics it is more than enough

    • Johanno@feddit.org
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 hours ago

      Probably yes. They need more money to fix the ship.

      However there’s for sure enough money in the military.

      So the question is, where did it all go?

      • zane@infosec.pub
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        4
        ·
        2 hours ago

        Did you look under the Pentagon?

        Why the fuck didn’t that come to a head the first time they failed audits? America failed us a long time ago.

  • ZapBeebz_@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    84
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 hours ago

    I mean, while she absolutely does not look great, this is also the expected condition for a ship that’s been at sea for 200+ days without even a port call. Saltwater is hell on metal, and paint can only do so much for so long.

    • filcuk@feddit.uk
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      7
      ·
      4 hours ago

      The cost to maintain these must be insane. A quick uneducated search gives me about half a billion $ per year. Absolutely bonkers.

      • Cethin@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        4 hours ago

        I have no idea if that includes crew, food, aircraft, armaments, and everything else. If it does, that’s not all that insane, or I should say I’m not surprised at least.

    • floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      16
      ·
      5 hours ago

      Even if it is expected and has no effect on the carrier’s performance, the optics are pretty bad regardless. Half of its job is projecting power, and a rusty ship doesn’t hit the same. Looks like soviet tech in western representations, working but barely

    • lightnsfw@reddthat.com
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      64
      ·
      10 hours ago

      The ship shouldn’t have been out that long in the first place. Letting it get this bad is the failure being highlighted here.

      • vzqq@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        24
        ·
        6 hours ago

        Maybe don’t start a war that puts your critical shore support structures at risk if you don’t have a plan.

        Or just, you know, don’t start a war, period. I have been informed it’s generally frowned upon.

        • ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          30 minutes ago

          Trump voters are braindead. Now we have sailers jumping off the boat to their deaths. Whole country is a hopeless cesspool of income inequality, job insecurity, skyrocketing cost of food, while housing costs, education costs, and healthcare costs are wildly unaffordable. Half of the population seems to be in some hated minority group (non Christian, non white, non cis, lgbt, disabled, autistic, or whatever boogeyman) these idiots can hate rather than focus on the real enemies manipulating them.

          It’s heartbreaking to see it in your family and neighbors. They voted their country away to own the libs. They don’t give a shit about the kids they sent to die in this stupid war. Or those kids they sent to rot on a boat.

          At least they were able to prevent those two trans kids from playing sports I guess.

  • Audacious@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    16
    ·
    9 hours ago

    Asked my dad about this, because he was in the navy a long time, and it’s normal, and the ship is sitting high, indicating light load, which makes sense because of the deployment circumstances.

  • countvon@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    73
    ·
    12 hours ago

    Not the most ragged lookin’ ship I’ve ever seen, but for a representative of the world’s most expensive Navy she’s looking absolutely shabby.

    • real_squids@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      edit-2
      10 hours ago

      This one’s got a long way to go to being Kuznetsov’d, for one you need to weld off unused areas, then make the engine room look like something from Saw, replace the catapult with a cope slope. Oh, and have it spew clouds of black smoke whenever it’s not moved by tugs (which is like 10%), maybe keep it in port for “modernization” for a few years too

      • fake@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        8 hours ago

        have it spew clouds of black smoke

        Really its a wonder Trump hasn’t mandated conventionally powered carriers, only his insane ideas with steam catapults.

  • ironpangolin29@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    7
    ·
    10 hours ago

    How to ragebait the right: “look at all those torpedo marks at the water line! They must have some thick hulls, bless.” 100s of comments on Tiktok news channels.

    Same channel: “that ship is about to experience chlamydia and herpes, better stock up on penicillin and valtrex” (upon landing on a sex capital of the world)…nothing. zero comments.

  • OwOarchist@pawb.social
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    15
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    11 hours ago

    I mean, sure, but…

    Is it really that surprising that a passenger aboard an ocean liner would have a better experience than a sailor aboard a warship?