cross-posted from: https://piefed.world/c/questions/p/1386281/why-do-people-want-to-live-long-beyond-50-years-old
It does not make sense to me why people would want to live beyond 50 years old, especially since health problems start becoming more frequent around that age.
Which makes me ask: Why do people wish to live long beyond the age of 50?
Yeah, that’s a way to think about it. I’m not the person who invented the idea of existential dread. It’s not something I can so easily just be okay with. I’m 32, doing mostly everything I can to enjoy the world as long as I can. Especially considering the view you have about the before/after, wouldn’t the during be the biggest and most important part? I just don’t understand the nonchalant attitude towards death. The reason you’d choose 40 is because that’s when the physical decline really starts?
Thats exactly my point about the ‘during’. Ultimately the only reason it has any meaning is because as animals for a large part of our evolutionary history if it didnt, we’d go insane and probably wouldnt reach this point where we can type messages to each other over the internet. For all of time before humanity, and for all of time after we are all gone (let alone any single individual), the blip of our existence ultimately doesnt have meaning except for the short blips themselves.
And yes, 40s is partly because thats when the living itself starts to become uncomfortable and/or downright painful, but mainly its just an arbitrary age.
Edit: you said you try to enjoy life as long as possible. Im the same, just sans the “as long as possible” part ;) Its not like I dont like fun or dont have things that bring me enjoyment
Because we are just a small part of something big we don’t matter at all? I understand your point but I completely disagree with it. “Meaning” is an arbitrary and completely nebulous concept. To your point there is one incredibly small chunk of time we as organisms have to experience the universe. Why shouldn’t we try to enhance, enjoy, participate, improve for others and feel as much as possible? What does “meaning” have to do with it at all?
Its not that we dont matter at all per se. Its a bit hard to put it into words what Im trying to say. Ill flip the question onto you: because we matter, regardless of how little or much, would you be willing to live for 500 years? What about 1000? Its kind of like were bartering over the number of years its acceptable (usually socially, because as you can see from this thread as soon as someone sais “actually i dont want a long life”, others tend to not be able to comprehend why that would be) to want to live. My point is that mattering doesnt matter to me. We think we matter, but most people dont really. Most people dont even know or remember their great grandparents names. Thats just 2 generations removed, and unless they achieved something remotely special, they no longer exist.
Part of it of course is because of our deeply buried subconscious need to live, or rather avoid death, because ultimately we are animals and most of what we do just boils down to that. Thats the reason food tastes good - because if it didnt release happy chemicals in your brain, you would be less motivated to seek it out, and the species would not survive (same reason sex feels good btw, same reason most things feel good or bad). Once we evolved a modicum of intelligence beyond other creatures, this paralysing terror of the unknown of death spawned religion, early on as proto-religions and in more modern times as the religions we are familiar with today, but the long and short of it is that humans are hardwired to be terrified of death (at least their own) and attempt to prolong their life as much as possible - whether in this life or with some concept of an afterlife. Its the same reason without really understanding the mechanics behind your decision, you feel like you want to live longer, and the same reason I havent yet done a long jump with a short sudden stop. Its very difficult to reason yourself past your animalistic evolutionary instincts that have kept you and literally every single direct ancestor of yours alive, unless you have some kind of illness (of which I believe people who commit suicide suffer - its not really a choice made with a healthy mind, and we should be treating it more like an illness IMO so that we can help these people)
If I bring any of my core beliefs into this discussion I’ll be dismissed, so I won’t. I’m operating in this discussion as though your premise is the sole correct one. That being the case 1000 years? Way too short I’d love to live infinitely. I’d want to feel things and participate in society as long as possible. “Mattering” to a small degree does carry some weight in my life. Its why I do the positive things I do and why I work the career I do. I recognize on a cosmic scale I don’t matter, but why is that of any consequence at all. The individual experience you can have when you don’t matter is all that really counts. So cutting it short/not wanting to extend it makes even less sense. I’m not trying to change your mind obviously and I’m enjoying the discussion.
For me it is, and for you yours is, which I guess if you follow the logic means there is no ‘sole correct one’ :)
Wouldn’t you get tired? Have you not read/heard stories and fables of characters who got that wish and ended up regretting it, because all they cherish moves on while theyre stuck forever? Also this is kinda my misunderstanding with the concept of heaven - eternity would become boring. And, what if your neighbour in heaven ends up being incredibly annoying and youre stuck next to him for ever. Euugh ;P
I see, well thats another difference between us. My matterring or lack thereof has no impact on the things I enjoy and whether I choose to engage in those activities. I dont enjoy programming because I matter, I enjoy it because I simply do, and thats the only reason I do it. Same goes for reading books, or playing games. Whether I matter has no effect on whether I will do things I enjoy or not. Thats the way I see it.
The way I see it, and I touched on this in an earlier comment, we very rarely matter even in a local scale, over even a small time frame of a lifetime or two.
I just realised that we are discussing something which relies heavily on the concept of “mattering”, but we very likely have entirely different understandings of what the word actually means, so Im interested to read what it means for you.
For me to matter means to have made a change, positive or negative (hopefully former, sadly more common to be the latter), the effects of which will be felt beyond the immediate group of people ‘present’ or even alive when the action takes place, and to be remembered for it. Alexander the Great is an example of this. Thousands of years after he is gone, his name is remembered, and he certainly shaped the world in one way or another.
I am also enjoying our discussion, not despite our clear differences in opinion but because of them :)
And I am also not trying or expect to change your mind.
I’ll just work with the “mattering” side of things. Though, I do appreciate everything else you’ve said. For me, mattering is impossible on a cosmic scale. For who I am, it’s also impossible on a historic/large scale. I’ll never be a leader or do anything worthy of history books or even a biography. That’s okay, I wouldn’t want to. On the “big” side, I’m an engineer working in electrical generation. Right now it’s nothing special but it does keep the lights on for many. Eventually with enough experience, luck and growth I hope to work on the nuclear side of things. I’ll never invent a thing that changes anything. But hopefully I’ll be part of a better future and cleaner energy. Being a little cog on a machine that big feels weighty and good. On the “small” scale, I’m a good member of my community. I spend about 16 hours a month volunteering with a really great animal shelter. I own/operate a small farm. ROUGH numbers, I sell about a quarter, keep about a quarter and donate about half of the things I produce. Its just enough money for me to consider it a moderately expensive hobby. That makes me matter to a small number of people, which in turn, makes me and my actions matter. I recognize the nihilistic point of it ultimately not tipping the grand scale at all. But for a minute something I produced kept a person fed whether they paid for it or not, that matters to me. Ironically both things are done kind of selfishly so that I can feel I matter.