I really would love to understand where this idea that “Marxist Leninist = Putin supporter”
Marxist Leninist (myself included) hate Putin. Putin is literally the embodiment of western neoliberalism in post Soviet Russia. He was literally installed and supported by western aligned oligarchs and capitalist within Russia.
I really am curious where you get this idea. I’d love receipts. I really hope it’s not just “MLs criticize NATO”. I really really hope it’s not just a binary view of the world like that. I swear people view the world like it’s a football match.
Why would we not criticize Putin? He’s a reactionary capitalist. Our critique of Putin isn’t that he’s some supernatural evil like liberal analysis often circles back to, but instead based on his actual, material position. Pushing back on liberal analysis doesn’t mean Putin is “our guy” or anything of the sort. First and foremost, we oppose the imperialist system headed by the US, and NATO which exists to protect it.
Any critical support for Russia extends to their right to self-determination from NATO encirclement, and their opposition to western imperialism, not to their reactionary, bourgeois society nor Putin at the top. The dissolution of the Soviet Union was a tremendous human tragedy, one that directly led to the current war today.
Marxist-Leninists despise NATO, for the genocidal terror inflicted by its member-states around the world and its position as a coalition of imperialist powers. Marxist-Leninists also despise Putin and United Russia, and believe socialism to be a necessity for Russia in the future that the nationalists will not accept willingly.
The major difference is that Marxists are materialists. We don’t believe Putin is some embodiment of supernatural evil trying to eat babies and conquer the world, we seek materialist explanations for the conditions and analyze them dialectically. This puts our analysis at odds with those who see the world similarly to Marvel movies, as conflict between the forces of good and evil.
Marxist-Leninists despise NATO, for the genocidal terror inflicted by its member-states around the world and its position as a coalition of imperialist powers
Yep, just trying to keep it basic in this environment. There’s a mountain of depth we could go to, but for many people here this may be their first time hearing actual opposition to NATO as an institution, with no knowledge of Marxism beyond “capitalism bad, communism good.” You gotta meet people where they are at, without committing tailist errors by blocking further growth.
For sure. I just feel like “it was full of nazis from its’ inception” is a good starting point - If there are good sources backing the claim. Most people understand that “nazi = bad” so it’s a great way to make them think deeper about NATO because most westerners are of the notion that “NATO = good”
Yep, linking the Wikipedia page for Adolf Heusinger can be helpful. At the same time, liberals tend to compartmentalize that to the past and focus instead on the present, like history is a series of snapshots. This is the limit of metaphysical analysis at the heart of liberalism. The entrypoint should often instead be how NATO is actively bad today. Then you can connect it historically as supporting evidence, and use this to develop rudimentary historical materialist analysis.
So you have no examples? Like, you don’t even have to link it. You can literally just tell me an example. I’m just asking for the bare minimum here mate.
My feed is full of Linux memes and pro Palestine posts. I’m not the charactercher you’ve constructed in your head.
You sit on one of the most de-federated instance and that instance federates and actively integrates with the few other most de-federated instances. There is no irony in pointing that out here. .world is progressive and well moderated, ML is authoritarian left and poorly moderated. Its not a nazi bar because a nazi sat there, they have a welcome sign on the fucking door.
Responded here. Basically, I couldn’t find anything showing what people claim, but I would love to. At least we have a starting point if we can find any post. After that we need to move to it being so common it’s just something you see, but hey, let’s just start at step one and take it from then.
I really would love to understand where this idea that “Marxist Leninist = Putin supporter”
Marxist Leninist (myself included) hate Putin. Putin is literally the embodiment of western neoliberalism in post Soviet Russia. He was literally installed and supported by western aligned oligarchs and capitalist within Russia.
I really am curious where you get this idea. I’d love receipts. I really hope it’s not just “MLs criticize NATO”. I really really hope it’s not just a binary view of the world like that. I swear people view the world like it’s a football match.
Do you think Russia is still run by MLs?
Woah, I have never seen a Marxist Leninist on here criticise Putin before. Fair play.
Why would we not criticize Putin? He’s a reactionary capitalist. Our critique of Putin isn’t that he’s some supernatural evil like liberal analysis often circles back to, but instead based on his actual, material position. Pushing back on liberal analysis doesn’t mean Putin is “our guy” or anything of the sort. First and foremost, we oppose the imperialist system headed by the US, and NATO which exists to protect it.
Any critical support for Russia extends to their right to self-determination from NATO encirclement, and their opposition to western imperialism, not to their reactionary, bourgeois society nor Putin at the top. The dissolution of the Soviet Union was a tremendous human tragedy, one that directly led to the current war today.
I’m happy to hear that.
Really?
Really.
I guess we hang out in different circles then.
Don’t play dumb to try and waste my time. You know exactly where it comes from and you’re on the ML instance so your feed is full of pro russia shit.
Marxist-Leninists despise NATO, for the genocidal terror inflicted by its member-states around the world and its position as a coalition of imperialist powers. Marxist-Leninists also despise Putin and United Russia, and believe socialism to be a necessity for Russia in the future that the nationalists will not accept willingly.
The major difference is that Marxists are materialists. We don’t believe Putin is some embodiment of supernatural evil trying to eat babies and conquer the world, we seek materialist explanations for the conditions and analyze them dialectically. This puts our analysis at odds with those who see the world similarly to Marvel movies, as conflict between the forces of good and evil.
Well… That, and the fact that it is a nazi institution full of nazis that put nazis back into power in West germany 2
Not that the history of an institution condems it completely, but it certainly does not help when it continues to be a nazi institution
Yep, just trying to keep it basic in this environment. There’s a mountain of depth we could go to, but for many people here this may be their first time hearing actual opposition to NATO as an institution, with no knowledge of Marxism beyond “capitalism bad, communism good.” You gotta meet people where they are at, without committing tailist errors by blocking further growth.
For sure. I just feel like “it was full of nazis from its’ inception” is a good starting point - If there are good sources backing the claim. Most people understand that “nazi = bad” so it’s a great way to make them think deeper about NATO because most westerners are of the notion that “NATO = good”
Yep, linking the Wikipedia page for Adolf Heusinger can be helpful. At the same time, liberals tend to compartmentalize that to the past and focus instead on the present, like history is a series of snapshots. This is the limit of metaphysical analysis at the heart of liberalism. The entrypoint should often instead be how NATO is actively bad today. Then you can connect it historically as supporting evidence, and use this to develop rudimentary historical materialist analysis.
So you have no examples? Like, you don’t even have to link it. You can literally just tell me an example. I’m just asking for the bare minimum here mate.
My feed is full of Linux memes and pro Palestine posts. I’m not the charactercher you’ve constructed in your head.
https://lemmy.nz/post/22289983
The irony of people doing guilt by association on .ml posting the biggest Nazi bar on Lemmy is sending me
You sit on one of the most de-federated instance and that instance federates and actively integrates with the few other most de-federated instances. There is no irony in pointing that out here. .world is progressive and well moderated, ML is authoritarian left and poorly moderated. Its not a nazi bar because a nazi sat there, they have a welcome sign on the fucking door.
last I checked more instances defederate .world (55) than .ml (37).
mwog (on sh.itjust.works) is the nazi bar I was referring to, they love talking about wiping out ‘degenerate roaches’ and it’s basically unmoderated.
.world is authoritarian liberalism. it is infamous for censoring people for being pro palestine and allowing zionists almost free reign.
one of .worlds mods used an admin tool to ban me from a comm that he didn’t even moderate in retaliation because I banned him from a trans space for posting matt walsh videos to mock people.
I prefer authoritarian moderation against bigots.
wow you seem charming, so progressive!
here’s you salivating at the thought of getting fresh footage of people dying:
spoiler
fuckin gross, hilarious that you’re calling anyone else a nazi
So you can’t prove it? Alright
https://lemmy.nz/post/22289983
Ah yes the comm that’s very concerned about maintaining purity from ‘degenerates’
Responded here. Basically, I couldn’t find anything showing what people claim, but I would love to. At least we have a starting point if we can find any post. After that we need to move to it being so common it’s just something you see, but hey, let’s just start at step one and take it from then.