And you would have more room to do that with mid dems too.
right now those exact type of dems are the ones having my friends and comrades arrested for protesting their capitulation. they are far more invested in protecting institutions and their own careers than listening to anyone on their left. the only real difference is that those dems not overtly calling us slurs.
And for that you need to build a little foothold. Which we lack in many places federal to local
thing is i’m in an area with a foothold already and i don’t see why we can’t expect more from these democrats right now. are we expected to wait until dsa/psl is running people for every dog catcher position in the country first? asking more of democrats in a deep blue state is not hurting their re-election chances. in reality their secure election position is exactly why they are so unaccountable.
thing is i’m in an area with a foothold already and i don’t see why we can’t expect more from these democrats right now
Well that is a nice point of privlidge that not all of us have, so congrats. As for the second point you should continue to prod and push them to do more. No where have I said dems win is the end game.
We are on the back foot and we have to live to fight another day. I’m sure you are familiar with the long march?
that is a nice point of privlidge that not all of us have, so congrats.
there’s a constant stream of trans people relocating from other parts of the country, those who can afford to at least. blue states have their upsides, but much of that goes away the second you’re unable to pay the inflated rents. i have way too many friends on the brink of homelessness and basically everyone i know has roommates, myself included. when i was on state insurance i was stuck paying out of pocket for HRT.
it may seem like a privileged position, but right now it’s just different terrain of struggle with the primary roadblock being democrats and their lgbt ‘ally’ nonprofits that have completely failed to meet the moment. instead of getting arrested by team red we get to be arrested by team blue.
my main point is that uncritical support of democrats gets us nowhere, they’ve demonstrated that they’re perfectly happy to throw minority groups under the bus in defense of institutions and their own positions.
i don’t think the CPC was being asked to vote and support the KMT during the long march
i don’t think the CPC was being asked to vote and support the KMT during the long march
No, the point is that they did what they needed to do to come out ahead. Regardless of how unpleasant it was. You need to live to fight another day to win. From where I am standing .ml types are too worried with purity testing to do what is needed. In this case it means voting dem where necessary.
my main point is that uncritical support of democrats gets us nowhere
Good news Diva, no one is asking you to be uncritical. You are being asked to be strategic.
no one is asking you to be uncritical. You are being asked to be strategic.
fortunately it is manifestly unnecessary to vote dem for me as we don’t have a popular vote and as a party republicans are entirely a non-factor (the seats are either nonpartisan or they just run as ‘moderate’ democrats)
don’t worry though i still get to vote in dem primaries
From where I am standing .ml types are too worried with purity testing to do what is needed.
from where i am standing way too many people are trying to return to the fucked up normal that came before trump instead of demanding better.
the democrats as a party are themselves extremely worried about purity testing too, to all of our detriment. they specifically exclude anyone pro-palestine and anti-capitalist, even if that’s what’s needed to meet the moment. as i’ve said, they waste opportunities and de-energize movements to protect institutions and their own positions. if we’re on a long march they are actively walking the wrong way, not to mention actively sabotaging us.
from where i am standing way too many people are trying to return to the fucked up normal that came before trump instead of demanding better.
Really? I don’t see that. I see people wanting better. I also see ML types not wanting to get the snow ball rolling on building electoral influence. They have none and make no effort to make any; they they wonder why they have made no head way or got anything from it.
the democrats as a party are themselves extremely worried about purity testing too, to all of our detriment. they specifically exclude anyone pro-palestine and anti-capitalist,
I mean. I clearly wrote before; voting blue is a last resort. And one that we won’t be able to move away from as many MLs just don’t care to help the rest of us on this front.
if we’re on a long march they are actively walking the wrong way, not to mention actively sabotaging us.
To expand on that… It looked even worse as they kept going, and kept getting more unpleasant. If they made the “principled” stance you are trying to make they would have been defeated in totality. Still the retreat was needed to pull forward later. They had to take steps that looked like abandoning their villages and towns, but they understood that if they didn’t then no one was going to be around for them tomorrow. I am sure they had the same recoil you feel at the possibility to vote for a mid dem, but many in the .ml server are unwilling to do what is needed (seems to me)
By the way, there are also more than just presidential elections. Local elections are far more important and often have on gerrymander or even people bothering to vote. These are not terribly expensive.
They had to take steps that looked like abandoning their villages and towns, but they understood that if they didn’t then no one was going to be around for them tomorrow.
so is this metaphor supposed to imply that i should be okay with my ‘allies’ abandoning me and other trans people in the name of their third position democrat schemes?
By the way, there are also more than just presidential elections. Local elections are far more important and often have on gerrymander or even people bothering to vote. These are not terribly expensive.
personally i am very involved in municipal stuff; many cities are heavily gerrymandered to have the local politics dominated by suburban shitheads completely detached from reality. the seats are all nonpartisan so often times even deep blue cities will have entire councils run by conservative real estate assholes and their friends.
the point isn’t just the money, it’s that it’s a massive time and personnel sink to pursue that across the country. all that for basically no payout considering how heavily most voter rolls are slanted towards wealthy homeowners. renters often end up effectively disenfranchised because in addition to needing to making extremely high rents and move between municipalities, they also have to update ballot paperwork every year or get de-enrolled.
so is this metaphor supposed to imply that i should be okay with my ‘allies’ abandoning me and other trans people in the name of their third position democrat schemes?
Its possible they might need to. I know I already have been left behind. All war is class war. All war is difficult. I don’t blame you for not having the heart for it. Should the CPC taken a heroic stand? At the start of it they had a series of set backs and it was clear to their commanders that they were on the brink of total defeat; hence why they made the call they did.
the point isn’t just the money, it’s that it’s a massive time and personnel sink to pursue that across the country.
You don’t have to take the point to lead the electoral part. I am not asking you to. No one is. You are being asked that when an uncomfortable, but strategic you should be ready to play your role in it.
I am not lucky enough to live in a blue place. I live in Texas and have family scattered around. Some even in Mexico. We are not going to see the fruit of any DSA growth in NYC or its spread to other cities for a while. Let alone anything PSL.
We as leftist are on a total back foot as far as our causes go. It is unwise to also be picky eaters as to where our influence might grow.
the analogy only works if the democrats are the CPC, which they very much are not. they certainly are not interested in building independent revolutionary power and will sabotage any attempt at it.
All war is class war.
it’s not tho, the slogan is ‘no war but the class war’.
additionally there’s a distinction between wars of national liberation, defensive wars against genocide, and inter-imperialist conflicts that workers have no stake in.
You are being asked that when an uncomfortable, but strategic you should be ready to play your role in it.
if a party don’t share any core values or objectives with me and considers me and people like me expendable, it is not strategic to vote for them. Have you ever tried to ask a democrat politician to do something they didn’t already want to do?
I am not lucky enough to live in a blue place.
it’s not like i was born here, i had to work hard for this. the vast majority of whatever family remains for me is on the other side of the planet. i prefer to focus on the people in my life in the here and now, and they are actively being harmed by democrats who choose to comply with trump against all protestation.
right now those exact type of dems are the ones having my friends and comrades arrested for protesting their capitulation. they are far more invested in protecting institutions and their own careers than listening to anyone on their left. the only real difference is that those dems not overtly calling us slurs.
thing is i’m in an area with a foothold already and i don’t see why we can’t expect more from these democrats right now. are we expected to wait until dsa/psl is running people for every dog catcher position in the country first? asking more of democrats in a deep blue state is not hurting their re-election chances. in reality their secure election position is exactly why they are so unaccountable.
Well that is a nice point of privlidge that not all of us have, so congrats. As for the second point you should continue to prod and push them to do more. No where have I said dems win is the end game.
We are on the back foot and we have to live to fight another day. I’m sure you are familiar with the long march?
there’s a constant stream of trans people relocating from other parts of the country, those who can afford to at least. blue states have their upsides, but much of that goes away the second you’re unable to pay the inflated rents. i have way too many friends on the brink of homelessness and basically everyone i know has roommates, myself included. when i was on state insurance i was stuck paying out of pocket for HRT.
it may seem like a privileged position, but right now it’s just different terrain of struggle with the primary roadblock being democrats and their lgbt ‘ally’ nonprofits that have completely failed to meet the moment. instead of getting arrested by team red we get to be arrested by team blue.
my main point is that uncritical support of democrats gets us nowhere, they’ve demonstrated that they’re perfectly happy to throw minority groups under the bus in defense of institutions and their own positions.
i don’t think the CPC was being asked to vote and support the KMT during the long march
No, the point is that they did what they needed to do to come out ahead. Regardless of how unpleasant it was. You need to live to fight another day to win. From where I am standing
.mltypes are too worried with purity testing to do what is needed. In this case it means voting dem where necessary.Good news Diva, no one is asking you to be uncritical. You are being asked to be strategic.
fortunately it is manifestly unnecessary to vote dem for me as we don’t have a popular vote and as a party republicans are entirely a non-factor (the seats are either nonpartisan or they just run as ‘moderate’ democrats)
don’t worry though i still get to vote in dem primaries
from where i am standing way too many people are trying to return to the fucked up normal that came before trump instead of demanding better.
the democrats as a party are themselves extremely worried about purity testing too, to all of our detriment. they specifically exclude anyone pro-palestine and anti-capitalist, even if that’s what’s needed to meet the moment. as i’ve said, they waste opportunities and de-energize movements to protect institutions and their own positions. if we’re on a long march they are actively walking the wrong way, not to mention actively sabotaging us.
Really? I don’t see that. I see people wanting better. I also see ML types not wanting to get the snow ball rolling on building electoral influence. They have none and make no effort to make any; they they wonder why they have made no head way or got anything from it.
I mean. I clearly wrote before; voting blue is a last resort. And one that we won’t be able to move away from as many MLs just don’t care to help the rest of us on this front.
To expand on that… It looked even worse as they kept going, and kept getting more unpleasant. If they made the “principled” stance you are trying to make they would have been defeated in totality. Still the retreat was needed to pull forward later. They had to take steps that looked like abandoning their villages and towns, but they understood that if they didn’t then no one was going to be around for them tomorrow. I am sure they had the same recoil you feel at the possibility to vote for a mid dem, but many in the
.mlserver are unwilling to do what is needed (seems to me)By the way, there are also more than just presidential elections. Local elections are far more important and often have on gerrymander or even people bothering to vote. These are not terribly expensive.
so is this metaphor supposed to imply that i should be okay with my ‘allies’ abandoning me and other trans people in the name of their third position democrat schemes?
personally i am very involved in municipal stuff; many cities are heavily gerrymandered to have the local politics dominated by suburban shitheads completely detached from reality. the seats are all nonpartisan so often times even deep blue cities will have entire councils run by conservative real estate assholes and their friends.
the point isn’t just the money, it’s that it’s a massive time and personnel sink to pursue that across the country. all that for basically no payout considering how heavily most voter rolls are slanted towards wealthy homeowners. renters often end up effectively disenfranchised because in addition to needing to making extremely high rents and move between municipalities, they also have to update ballot paperwork every year or get de-enrolled.
Its possible they might need to. I know I already have been left behind. All war is class war. All war is difficult. I don’t blame you for not having the heart for it. Should the CPC taken a heroic stand? At the start of it they had a series of set backs and it was clear to their commanders that they were on the brink of total defeat; hence why they made the call they did.
You don’t have to take the point to lead the electoral part. I am not asking you to. No one is. You are being asked that when an uncomfortable, but strategic you should be ready to play your role in it.
I am not lucky enough to live in a blue place. I live in Texas and have family scattered around. Some even in Mexico. We are not going to see the fruit of any DSA growth in NYC or its spread to other cities for a while. Let alone anything PSL.
We as leftist are on a total back foot as far as our causes go. It is unwise to also be picky eaters as to where our influence might grow.
the analogy only works if the democrats are the CPC, which they very much are not. they certainly are not interested in building independent revolutionary power and will sabotage any attempt at it.
it’s not tho, the slogan is ‘no war but the class war’.
additionally there’s a distinction between wars of national liberation, defensive wars against genocide, and inter-imperialist conflicts that workers have no stake in.
if a party don’t share any core values or objectives with me and considers me and people like me expendable, it is not strategic to vote for them. Have you ever tried to ask a democrat politician to do something they didn’t already want to do?
it’s not like i was born here, i had to work hard for this. the vast majority of whatever family remains for me is on the other side of the planet. i prefer to focus on the people in my life in the here and now, and they are actively being harmed by democrats who choose to comply with trump against all protestation.
The democrats are not principled leftists. Your analogy does not work.