yes. infiltrating capitalist institutions famously doesn’t work. we call those entrists.
i don’t care for lone wolf martyrs. be them entrists or shooters or bombers alike. those can be cathartic but this is it.
leftists organizing their own institutions is what historically works, and is a better use of talented people’s time and abilities.
and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.
and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.
… HAH. No… just, no. That’s not what centrism is, and that’s NOT the story of how we got the 8 hour workday.
We have (or in some cases had) the 8 hour workday, OSHA, social security, legally protected unions, etc as a result of the New Deal.
What was the New Deal?
Well, an extremely progressive “centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt - ran for President, and won. He took over the Presidency in the depths of the Great Depression, and Democrats attained majority in both chambers of congress.
They gained complete political power largely because Republican policies had sent the United States into an economic nosedive. They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.
Sound familiar?
He - alongside Congress - passed a whole bunch of legislation, created a whole bunch of federal agencies, and forced through massive leaps forward in labor protections and social welfare programs.
the new deal came about because of socialist pressure. thats also why it ain’t happening again, because there are barely any socialists in the us anymore.
grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions
who was supporting grassroots work reform? thats right, the socialists. under the threat of violence. saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.
“centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt
i literally said nothing about roosevelt or centrism in any of my responses to you. putting words in my mouth.
you are the one who should read a book, preferrably something not whitewashed by the CIA or something, cause holy shit.
You’re absolutely right - the New Deal was possible because:
They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.
That is in fact the grassroots support I’m talking about, thanks.
How do you think we had a Congress and a President who were willing to listen to those grassroots movements?
That’s right - Americans elected a whole bunch of people like the candidate in this article.
since you are repeating yourself ill take the liberty to do so myself:
saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.
socialist blood. the candidate in your article will fade into irrelevancy because there isn’t a mass leftist movement to support radical change like there was back then.
if there was enough of a movement, you can bet you could force trump himself into passing progressive laws. no need for specific candidates to vote for.
I genuinely do agree that we do not have the same party or candidates or support as we did in the 1930s. I genuinely agree that we need systematic change, or any progress we make will only be undone within a century, like last time.
But they didn’t have that party, those candidates, or that support in the 1920s. The Great Depression changed everything.
Violence alone did not make it happen. And lol no, the current Republican Party would absolutely let the United States collapse into civil war before they passed anything like the New Deal. You know, like… the, American Civil War.
Referring to progressive movements in the 1930s as “grassroots” doesn’t fucking whitewash anything. Socialists weren’t alone in the 1930s, and socialism didn’t have anywhere close to enough support in the 1920s to get the New Deal passed.
They elected the people who made the difference. It wasn’t “benevolent capitalists” that gave us the New Deal - it was people voting for change. Real change, not the half-assed shit we talk about these days.
I wish we could skip over the terrible economic suffering that pushed Americans in that direction, but it probably will happen all over again.
Your socialist movement is possible. We’re walking into all the conditions required to make it happen. And here you are, claiming that you have no use for the exact type of people you need to see it through.
violence is one of the tools at our disposal, the threat of the upending of the status quo is what did it. that comes from leftists, not politicians or institutionalism.
the institutions are there to uphold the status quo, regardless of the good people that might be elected. it also explains why the trump admin is dismantling them, he wants to break the status quo for something else.
The last time the status quo was truly threatened, the South started a war. The Republican Party would do the same thing today.
Plenty of socialists et al were threatening the status quo in the 1920s. The Republicans didn’t listen. But the Great Depression itself upended the status quo, and made Americans willing to do anything to make it stop.
That lead to Democrats gaining complete control, and it lead to Democrats being persuaded to actually use that control to enact real change. Yes, part of that persuasion was absolutely intimidation. Much of that intimidation was bought with the blood of leftists.
The same exact conditions are precipitating now. The United States has had its tariffs and its deregulations and its tax cuts and its spending cuts. The stock market points wherever the fuck it wants, but the actual economy is pointing straight down.
And I completely agree that the solution isn’t “let the Democrats fix it”. Far from it.
But the solution certainly doesn’t involve opposition to the type of electoral candidates that would help fix things, like a 26 year old who seems genuinely interested in helping people.
yes. socialism. they were starting to demand socialism. no wonder new deal policies were heavily inspired by soviet policies.
the great depression was nothing more than a top-heavy deregulated capitalism crashing. exactly as predicted by marx. neoliberalism has risen to replace traditional capitalism, because us people bought the new deal as a compromise instead of deposing the capitalists.
bringing us right back to a similar conundrum now.
yes. infiltrating capitalist institutions famously doesn’t work. we call those entrists.
i don’t care for lone wolf martyrs. be them entrists or shooters or bombers alike. those can be cathartic but this is it.
leftists organizing their own institutions is what historically works, and is a better use of talented people’s time and abilities.
and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.
… HAH. No… just, no. That’s not what centrism is, and that’s NOT the story of how we got the 8 hour workday.
We have (or in some cases had) the 8 hour workday, OSHA, social security, legally protected unions, etc as a result of the New Deal.
What was the New Deal?
Well, an extremely progressive “centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt - ran for President, and won. He took over the Presidency in the depths of the Great Depression, and Democrats attained majority in both chambers of congress.
They gained complete political power largely because Republican policies had sent the United States into an economic nosedive. They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.
Sound familiar?
He - alongside Congress - passed a whole bunch of legislation, created a whole bunch of federal agencies, and forced through massive leaps forward in labor protections and social welfare programs.
That’s why you have the 8 hour workday.
Read a book.
the new deal came about because of socialist pressure. thats also why it ain’t happening again, because there are barely any socialists in the us anymore.
who was supporting grassroots work reform? thats right, the socialists. under the threat of violence. saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.
i literally said nothing about roosevelt or centrism in any of my responses to you. putting words in my mouth.
you are the one who should read a book, preferrably something not whitewashed by the CIA or something, cause holy shit.
You’re absolutely right - the New Deal was possible because:
That is in fact the grassroots support I’m talking about, thanks.
How do you think we had a Congress and a President who were willing to listen to those grassroots movements?
That’s right - Americans elected a whole bunch of people like the candidate in this article.
The one you claimed we “have no use for.”
who are you quoting again?
since you are repeating yourself ill take the liberty to do so myself:
socialist blood. the candidate in your article will fade into irrelevancy because there isn’t a mass leftist movement to support radical change like there was back then.
if there was enough of a movement, you can bet you could force trump himself into passing progressive laws. no need for specific candidates to vote for.
My friend, you’ve gone too deep.
I genuinely do agree that we do not have the same party or candidates or support as we did in the 1930s. I genuinely agree that we need systematic change, or any progress we make will only be undone within a century, like last time.
But they didn’t have that party, those candidates, or that support in the 1920s. The Great Depression changed everything.
Violence alone did not make it happen. And lol no, the current Republican Party would absolutely let the United States collapse into civil war before they passed anything like the New Deal. You know, like… the, American Civil War.
Referring to progressive movements in the 1930s as “grassroots” doesn’t fucking whitewash anything. Socialists weren’t alone in the 1930s, and socialism didn’t have anywhere close to enough support in the 1920s to get the New Deal passed.
They elected the people who made the difference. It wasn’t “benevolent capitalists” that gave us the New Deal - it was people voting for change. Real change, not the half-assed shit we talk about these days.
I wish we could skip over the terrible economic suffering that pushed Americans in that direction, but it probably will happen all over again.
Your socialist movement is possible. We’re walking into all the conditions required to make it happen. And here you are, claiming that you have no use for the exact type of people you need to see it through.
violence is one of the tools at our disposal, the threat of the upending of the status quo is what did it. that comes from leftists, not politicians or institutionalism.
the institutions are there to uphold the status quo, regardless of the good people that might be elected. it also explains why the trump admin is dismantling them, he wants to break the status quo for something else.
The last time the status quo was truly threatened, the South started a war. The Republican Party would do the same thing today.
Plenty of socialists et al were threatening the status quo in the 1920s. The Republicans didn’t listen. But the Great Depression itself upended the status quo, and made Americans willing to do anything to make it stop.
That lead to Democrats gaining complete control, and it lead to Democrats being persuaded to actually use that control to enact real change. Yes, part of that persuasion was absolutely intimidation. Much of that intimidation was bought with the blood of leftists.
The same exact conditions are precipitating now. The United States has had its tariffs and its deregulations and its tax cuts and its spending cuts. The stock market points wherever the fuck it wants, but the actual economy is pointing straight down.
And I completely agree that the solution isn’t “let the Democrats fix it”. Far from it.
But the solution certainly doesn’t involve opposition to the type of electoral candidates that would help fix things, like a 26 year old who seems genuinely interested in helping people.
yes. socialism. they were starting to demand socialism. no wonder new deal policies were heavily inspired by soviet policies.
the great depression was nothing more than a top-heavy deregulated capitalism crashing. exactly as predicted by marx. neoliberalism has risen to replace traditional capitalism, because us people bought the new deal as a compromise instead of deposing the capitalists.
bringing us right back to a similar conundrum now.