Why do you think that firing someone over this is the correct response? I’m sorry but that is a really stupid mindset.
You learn and train/educate your employees so that it doesn’t happen again.
“Recently, I was asked if I was going to fire an employee who made a mistake that cost the company $600,000. No, I replied, I just spent $600,000 training him. Why would I want somebody to hire his experience?”
And how do you know it was a person and not an automated system?
The answer is, you don’t. You’re just guessing. You’re being outraged over an assumption you have, without any way of verifying if that is the case. Do you think that’s a healthy mindset to have?
Probably because kids would use gay as part of some random homophobic insult in their location field lol
The road to hell is paved with good intentions and the main (still sadly all too relevant) problem here is customer support not just reacting and fixing it.
So therefore the dev(s) who wrote the system should get fired? All because they enacted on tickets to stop people from using what they thought were slurs in their location tag?
What part of that do I need to think twice about? You really want this to be about some ban happy dev (that you assume is the case) that you completely skip over the real problem of customer support not managing to solve what should have been an easy fix.
If you read the sources on the wiki. You’ll see Xbox apologized and updated their training to ensure it doesn’t happen again. That sure sounds like the best outcome to what we know happened.
Why imagine? It wasn’t, and if it had been, they would have been right to uphold the ban.
But making that distinction is the job and they failed to do it right. Quite possibly, as others here have suggested, out of willful ignorance. One of the worst traits I can personally imagine a person to have, and one that by now, mainstream American culture is built upon.
somebody who repeatedly chooses to remain ignorant, not do their job, and not look into this is NOT somebody that can be trained. they will just revert to their ways soon after trying to address it and maybe showing improvement
source: my anecdotal evidence of every single poor performer I have trained
It’s an offense that can’t be easily fixed by teaching, seeing as how that employee could have looked at a map at any time and verified that the account holder wasn’t lying. Unwillingness to access information likely cannot be fixed with forced exposure to the information they were unwilling to access.
You are simply guessing. With no way to verify your claim. For all we know, the customer support person DID google “Fort Gay VW”, and was presented with pornography. Perhaps that person should have used a dedicated map instead of a simple search. Perhaps that’s an adjustment that can be made without making someone lose their job and potentially livelihood.
You don’t just fire someone for a mistake. It’s ok to make an honest mistakes. The important part is that you learn from them.
Why would something stop being a mistake just because of post-incident actions from a third party? How does that make any sense?
Xbox Live chief enforcement officer Stephen Toulouse acknowledges the agent reviewing a fellow gamer’s complaint against Moore made a mistake.
He says keeping up with slang and policing Xbox Live for offensive language is challenging, but mistakes in judgment are rare.
Toulouse says training has since been updated.
That’s from the source Wikipedia cites.
They made a mistake, eventually it was recognized, and they claim they’ve since updated their training to prevent similar incidents in the future. Isn’t that a good outcome? The guy got his account back. And Xbox apologized and took steps to ensure it doesn’t happen again. What else do you want?
Honestly the greater issue I have is with developers that haven’t touched enough grass to realize that some people are named Gaylord or live in Cunthorpe or whatever.
That, and the stupid culture which insists that baby must only see baby words, not mean old grownup words.
The people in charge of those decisions just shouldn’t have such power. And if a user names themselves removedHater1995 you can still intervene based on reports from others.
Are devs supposes to know every single weird old name in existence beforehand and add that to a giant exception array?
They just can’t ever do anything right then.
If they do, do something. Someone fell through the cracks and Xbox sucks and devs needs to be fired.
If they don’t do anything, then the Xbox sucks because they enable racism, homophobia, harassment, etc. And devs needs to be fired.
What do you want? Besides firing everyone involved apparently. The problem got fixed. They updated their training to ensure customer support handle these cases better in the future.
This was in 2010. Have there been more of those incidents since then?
I appreciate the sentiment, I really do. And yes, the problem is more of a systemic one. But we need real people to personally feel the consequences of this idiocy if we want things to change for the better. Otherwise, everyone will just keep on pretending everything is fine.
Who’s to say they didn’t receive any consequences? But that consequence doesn’t mean you have to lose your job over what easily could have been an honest mistake. Bear in mind, the person (if it even was a person) that terminated the account, and the people in customer support are most likely different people. I’m not saying that customer support couldn’t have handled it better. But calling for someone to be fired as the first resort is simply not a good mindset.
Why do you think that firing someone over this is the correct response? I’m sorry but that is a really stupid mindset.
You learn and train/educate your employees so that it doesn’t happen again.
because someone who bans an account because it has the word “gay” in the name should not work in a position where they can ban accounts.
And how do you know it was a person and not an automated system?
The answer is, you don’t. You’re just guessing. You’re being outraged over an assumption you have, without any way of verifying if that is the case. Do you think that’s a healthy mindset to have?
“Automated” systems act by rules, configured by people. Think again.
Probably because kids would use gay as part of some random homophobic insult in their location field lol
The road to hell is paved with good intentions and the main (still sadly all too relevant) problem here is customer support not just reacting and fixing it.
Look up the Scunthorpe problem.
Unintended consequences.
So therefore the dev(s) who wrote the system should get fired? All because they enacted on tickets to stop people from using what they thought were slurs in their location tag?
What part of that do I need to think twice about? You really want this to be about some ban happy dev (that you assume is the case) that you completely skip over the real problem of customer support not managing to solve what should have been an easy fix.
If you read the sources on the wiki. You’ll see Xbox apologized and updated their training to ensure it doesn’t happen again. That sure sounds like the best outcome to what we know happened.
Imagine an intentionally hateful use of the word gay instead.
Why imagine? It wasn’t, and if it had been, they would have been right to uphold the ban.
But making that distinction is the job and they failed to do it right. Quite possibly, as others here have suggested, out of willful ignorance. One of the worst traits I can personally imagine a person to have, and one that by now, mainstream American culture is built upon.
somebody who repeatedly chooses to remain ignorant, not do their job, and not look into this is NOT somebody that can be trained. they will just revert to their ways soon after trying to address it and maybe showing improvement
source: my anecdotal evidence of every single poor performer I have trained
It’s an offense that can’t be easily fixed by teaching, seeing as how that employee could have looked at a map at any time and verified that the account holder wasn’t lying. Unwillingness to access information likely cannot be fixed with forced exposure to the information they were unwilling to access.
You are simply guessing. With no way to verify your claim. For all we know, the customer support person DID google “Fort Gay VW”, and was presented with pornography. Perhaps that person should have used a dedicated map instead of a simple search. Perhaps that’s an adjustment that can be made without making someone lose their job and potentially livelihood.
You don’t just fire someone for a mistake. It’s ok to make an honest mistakes. The important part is that you learn from them.
It stops being an honest mistake when mayors have to get involved, in my opinion.
Why would something stop being a mistake just because of post-incident actions from a third party? How does that make any sense?
That’s from the source Wikipedia cites.
They made a mistake, eventually it was recognized, and they claim they’ve since updated their training to prevent similar incidents in the future. Isn’t that a good outcome? The guy got his account back. And Xbox apologized and took steps to ensure it doesn’t happen again. What else do you want?
Honestly the greater issue I have is with developers that haven’t touched enough grass to realize that some people are named Gaylord or live in Cunthorpe or whatever.
That, and the stupid culture which insists that baby must only see baby words, not mean old grownup words.
The people in charge of those decisions just shouldn’t have such power. And if a user names themselves removedHater1995 you can still intervene based on reports from others.
Are devs supposes to know every single weird old name in existence beforehand and add that to a giant exception array?
They just can’t ever do anything right then.
If they do, do something. Someone fell through the cracks and Xbox sucks and devs needs to be fired.
If they don’t do anything, then the Xbox sucks because they enable racism, homophobia, harassment, etc. And devs needs to be fired.
What do you want? Besides firing everyone involved apparently. The problem got fixed. They updated their training to ensure customer support handle these cases better in the future.
This was in 2010. Have there been more of those incidents since then?
This is Lemmy bro. From what I have seen, if you don’t pass the purity test you deserve beheading.
I appreciate the sentiment, I really do. And yes, the problem is more of a systemic one. But we need real people to personally feel the consequences of this idiocy if we want things to change for the better. Otherwise, everyone will just keep on pretending everything is fine.
Who’s to say they didn’t receive any consequences? But that consequence doesn’t mean you have to lose your job over what easily could have been an honest mistake. Bear in mind, the person (if it even was a person) that terminated the account, and the people in customer support are most likely different people. I’m not saying that customer support couldn’t have handled it better. But calling for someone to be fired as the first resort is simply not a good mindset.