I’ll start by saying that I would say “Yyyyeah, and one of the first cellphones and also the very first 0G telephone service (Altai) was made in the Soviet Union under socialism, go figure”. What would you say?
Ask them why they drive on public roads.
If they speak in simplistic gotchas you might as well respond with another.
It’s hard to compete in road construction with the guys building on stolen land paying for labor with stolen money.
Tell them they’re using one of the oldest logical fallacies, and Ancient philosophers would be embarrassed by them.
"It’s called socialism. I need a society to do it. You like baseball? Why aren’t you playing it right now?
Ok…but, in line with my username, I’m going to stay true to form! I shall take your reaction, which makes sense and proves a point, and I shall instead only use a small out of context portion of it as MY reply. The following series of discussion would in no way make sense, BUT don’t worry. I’ll just gas light the other person by insisting it makes total sense! And then someone will reply “Username relevant”.
“You support socialism, yet you use products of capitalism”
“YOU SHOULD PLAY BASEBALL!”
“Learn the difference between socialism and communism is before you say things like that.”
“Socialism involves people owning the means of production (whether in a market economy or a planned one). Communism involves exactly that as well, but in a classless stateless moneyless society. No class war, no state, no money, no problem.”
Socialism is a form of government where the equality of people comes first.
The entire US anti-socialist kneejerk is because Marx said that socialism as a stepping stone to communism is the only non-violent way to get there
Socialist democracy allows for capitalism, as long as the government protects its people from the capitalist tendancy to turn into an oligarchy.
Socialist democracy allows for capitalism, as long as the government protects its people from the capitalist tendancy to turn into an oligarchy.
Are you talking about market socialism?
Sorta, depending on your exact definition.
More of a Lassalle flavour of socialism than Marx, at the very least.
Pragmatically, state-less communism is a utopia reliant on all members following its principles. A state is required to defend against greed, both from the outside as from within.
Wwhether you call it market socialism or social democracy, the concept of a state limits capitalism to serve its people first, while also granting as much freedom possible by “allowing” capitalism, seems to be the closest one can get to Marxism while still defending against tyranny.
Society is a living thing and must be able to both change and defend itself. Socialist states are prone to tyranny from within, where as pure communist utopia has little to no defense from foreign entities. A democratic government in service of the people is the best way I’m aware of to achieve the core socialist principles.
Nope.
“Despite my personal beliefs, I still live in a capitalist society, and have to get along somehow.”
“I may be a socialist, but I live under capitalism, and I’ve gotten used to that.”
I’ve seen that kind of behavior in exactly two places, Lemmy and Reddit. Not one time in real life have I been asked such a question, and I am pretty fucking outspoken about my opinions.
“You expect me to not participate in this society and just die instead? Cards are currently stacked against us and I’m playing my hand the best I can!”
“I won’t engage in bad faith debate with a dumbass”
Because I cannot go live on an island and invent the internet. Just because I’m playing the game does not mean I like it. Don’t confuse consumerism with activism.
the most authentic critiques of a system tend to come from within it.
I use the least capitalistic options?
Easy answer
Ask them for products recommendations.
Like what?
Exactly.
I’d ask them what makes them think I support socialism.
you do what you can.
Substitute labour intensive alternatives. Its generally quite easy for recreation just go to an open mic night in the pub or a pwyf concert instead of all these streaming things. or take a walk in the park, or a hike in the hills instead of spending money on entertainment. Something like a game of football/soccer is pretty ultimate socialism entertainment - just don’t pay to watch other people get your kicks for you.
Go out of your way to use public transport as much as possible even if it’s slower or more inconvenient. This good practice in compromise to try social efficiency and sharing assets over individualistic self centredness - this is basically tragedy of commons/prisoners dilemma though so . . . ultimately your society will need some general trust for this to work - and it will break down often.
If you need stuff prefer patent expired or open source stuff, or just old second hand stuff. also get buy it for life stuff. Personally i can have hours of fun with a discarded wood pallet and some very old hand tools.
Patent expired i.e. more open to competition/“free” market forces is like one step more socialised than the oligopolised stuff. (That is where the free applies to the trades in the market and access to it, not to the people who want the ‘freedom’ to restrict trade and market entry.)
You can also try to share stuff with your friends and neighbors - that’s pretty sociable. At the end of the day though land and food is essential, so if that’s not available socially, you’re fucked. Grow what you can and share it around i guess.
What about improv?
yeah definately. i mean pretty much anything live. people sitting in a room entertaining each other, that’s fairly social, and much less capital intensive than big media entertainment .
