Electronic Stability Program became mandatory in the US in 2012 and the EU in 2014. I’ve driven a '05 Grand Cherokee that didn’t have it (or even traction control if I remember correctly), though German cars mostly started getting it in late 90s or early 00s. ESP can be an absolute godsend in the winter because unlike your right foot, it can control each wheel’s brakes individually to prevent skids.
It’s not just trucks, all vehicles have gotten safer and more efficient over time because of regulations that have forced manufacturers to adopt new technologies. I’ve never heard anyone question this before, as it’s so widely known.
They still make single row ones. We have many at my workplace. Usually tradies that work for larger businesses or local governments use them. Smaller trade businesses generally the dual/super cab ones. They do have their uses but most people don’t use them for that purpose.
Ranger XL single cab or Hilux single cab still around. The Holden Colorado was my favourite as someone that did a lot of long drives but that doesn’t exist anymore.
At the end of the day, most people want to drive a bigger car because they feel safer when though the bigger vehicles are the problem.
Neat, I’ll retract the older part of my comment, if you absolutely need a pickup truck get one of those then. As for the safety thing, I’m aware of it, and I’m also aware of how psychopathic it is. Fuck you for wanting to have any chance of survival when I hit you, I don’t want to be hurt at the same time.
It’s a LandCruiser cab/chassis with a tray. They aren’t common outside Australia and Africa
The thing is though, in Australia people don’t buy these for everyday driving, they are expensive and industrial, there are no incentives to push people and car sellers toward bigger vehicles
Dual cab models are available, but are only popular in overland/off-road enthusiasts who aren’t bothered by the small tray
So we don’t have them trying to park in town, naturally they’re more common in rural areas, but rural towns have longer parking places
Yes, obviously, but they are already making pick up trucks that have a sealable bed. They also have pick ups that have a raised construction on the bed with a roof. Next step is a double door on the rear and they will just be vans again.
I do. My family ran a house construction company. We never bought anything but vans because:
materials are expensive, and it rains.
Tools are expensive, and it rains.
Materials are expensive, and people steal.
Tools are expensive, and people steal.
Shit falls out of pickup beds all the time. Every fucking day a load is lost on a highway.
Most pickups can’t even carry 4x8 sheets with the tail up. Poser work trucks.
Vans have a lower loading height, and can be accessed from 3 points.
FWD vans can actually be driven in snow, as opposed to a stupid design that puts the drive wheels at the wrong end of the vehicle, which means poor ground clearance because of the differential and driveshaft, so they mount bigger wheels. Dumb on top of dumb.
I understand the constant TV commercials about payload with Sam Elliot narrations but get fucking serious, most construction trades do not use their own vehicles, they just commute to the work site.
So how does having an open top and a larger vehicle for the same storage space make more sense? Not in trades just have a vague sense of 3 dimensional space and efficiency.
Yes, that is what they all use here because its just better. A roof keeps your tools dry and if someone wants to steal it they need to break in rather than just grabbing it.
Where is here? This is just pathetic. You ever load a skid of material/ equipment into a van? It’s do able with the right size fork lift I guess, pain in the ass though when you got two skids worth to load unload. How about when you only have a crane avaliable? How about when you have petrol cans / slip tanks to bring to a job site to fill up your crane/ excavator? You think a guy wants those fumes in his cab? Need a dump box for landscape work? Pull of your bed and put one on. Want to get into tow and recovery, pull of your bed and put a tow lift on. Need a flat deck? Guess what you got it for the price of fun. Need a welding rig? Guess what it’s right there put the welder in the back and gas bottles. What you gona fill the van cab with exaust fumes from the welder and risk leaking oxy/propane/acetylene into your nice and dry van cab? But hey your shit will be dry right?
My guy, no one is saying that pick up trucks are useless. What they are saying is that trucks are too big and too expensive for what the majority of buyers use it for. Many Americans buy their pick up trucks for symbolic cultural status, not pragmatic trades use.
I once spent a summer installing new milking parlors at dairy farms in central PA. The welder, tanks, PPE, and the rest of our tools fit just fine into an old transit van with sliding side doors, rear double doors, a hitch to tow the generator, and a roof rack for large items like pipes and ladders. A box truck was used to deliver material pallets to each worksite.
The company I use for plumbing and HVAC uses vans. The carpet cleaning service I use has their cleaning machine built inside of a van. When I had to transport 50+ computers to refresh satellite office hardware I used a minivan with removable seats.
Could a pick up have done all those jobs? Absolutely. However, we didn’t need a pick up to do all those jobs, and the vehicles we did use were much smaller and less expensive. That is what people in this thread are saying. Most modern pick up trucks are not designed for trade use; today’s midsize pickups are larger than full-size pickups from 20 years ago, and they have the bells and whistles that you’d expect to see in a higher end passenger car, instead of the vinyl/plastic interiors that they used to have ~20 years ago.
EDIT: I just saw that the original person you responded to did say that no one needs a truck. They were probably being hyperbolic, but as there are numerous use cases for pick up trucks I can see where your push back came from.
D’uh. Vans are more lockable, there’s more space, you can just walk straight into them, they have much shorter hoods so that more of their length can be for storage than for just being long for the sake of it, and they are way more modifiable than people think. A work van is still body-on-frame so they’re perfectly capable towing vehicles to boot.
Trucks do one thing better, and that is having a bed that can be removed/taken up for more useful things like fifth-wheel hookups and towing rigs. I guess you can also maybe put a single haybale in there, but actual farmers who aren’t cosplaying don’t move their shit one bale at a time while pretending they’re Ford Tough™.
U-haul rents pickups but there’s a reason you never really see them. Why would I go through all that trouble and cost and not at least get the van?
What do you suggest for the trades? A van?
9/10 trades on site aren’t hauling anything to the job.
Or an older pickup with equivalent bed space and no weight wasted on a second row of passenger seats.
Okay how old? We talking pre 2008? Because anything before that are pigs on fuel, perform significantly worse, and lack of basic saftey features.
Do you have any numbers to attach to those claims?
Efficiency has improved over the decades despite the trucks getting larger: https://carbuzz.com/ford-improved-f-150-fuel-economy-five-decades/ you’ll also see how the old inefficient engines had less power than the new more efficient ones.
Electronic Stability Program became mandatory in the US in 2012 and the EU in 2014. I’ve driven a '05 Grand Cherokee that didn’t have it (or even traction control if I remember correctly), though German cars mostly started getting it in late 90s or early 00s. ESP can be an absolute godsend in the winter because unlike your right foot, it can control each wheel’s brakes individually to prevent skids.
It’s not just trucks, all vehicles have gotten safer and more efficient over time because of regulations that have forced manufacturers to adopt new technologies. I’ve never heard anyone question this before, as it’s so widely known.
But do they have to be huge and tall?
Oh they most definitely do not, they’d be more efficient if they weren’t. And perhaps not safer for the people inside, but safer for everyone else.
Oh, I probably could have been more clear, I wasn’t asking if newer vehicles were safer or more efficient, just how much more.
You have my thanks, for I did not have the energy for that!
They still make single row ones. We have many at my workplace. Usually tradies that work for larger businesses or local governments use them. Smaller trade businesses generally the dual/super cab ones. They do have their uses but most people don’t use them for that purpose.
Ranger XL single cab or Hilux single cab still around. The Holden Colorado was my favourite as someone that did a lot of long drives but that doesn’t exist anymore.
At the end of the day, most people want to drive a bigger car because they feel safer when though the bigger vehicles are the problem.
Neat, I’ll retract the older part of my comment, if you absolutely need a pickup truck get one of those then. As for the safety thing, I’m aware of it, and I’m also aware of how psychopathic it is. Fuck you for wanting to have any chance of survival when I hit you, I don’t want to be hurt at the same time.
Most of the world does real work in one of these.
Isn’t that still just a pick-up truck?
I’ve only ever seen these:
A van but with a flatbed.
It’s a LandCruiser cab/chassis with a tray. They aren’t common outside Australia and Africa
The thing is though, in Australia people don’t buy these for everyday driving, they are expensive and industrial, there are no incentives to push people and car sellers toward bigger vehicles
Dual cab models are available, but are only popular in overland/off-road enthusiasts who aren’t bothered by the small tray
So we don’t have them trying to park in town, naturally they’re more common in rural areas, but rural towns have longer parking places
Yes, obviously, but they are already making pick up trucks that have a sealable bed. They also have pick ups that have a raised construction on the bed with a roof. Next step is a double door on the rear and they will just be vans again.
Do you actualy have any real trades experience. Or are you just barking?
I do. My family ran a house construction company. We never bought anything but vans because:
materials are expensive, and it rains.
Tools are expensive, and it rains.
Materials are expensive, and people steal.
Tools are expensive, and people steal.
Shit falls out of pickup beds all the time. Every fucking day a load is lost on a highway.
Most pickups can’t even carry 4x8 sheets with the tail up. Poser work trucks.
Vans have a lower loading height, and can be accessed from 3 points.
FWD vans can actually be driven in snow, as opposed to a stupid design that puts the drive wheels at the wrong end of the vehicle, which means poor ground clearance because of the differential and driveshaft, so they mount bigger wheels. Dumb on top of dumb.
I understand the constant TV commercials about payload with Sam Elliot narrations but get fucking serious, most construction trades do not use their own vehicles, they just commute to the work site.
Barking? Well I sure seem to have bitten you
No just calling out your lack of practical understanding of skilled trades.
So how does having an open top and a larger vehicle for the same storage space make more sense? Not in trades just have a vague sense of 3 dimensional space and efficiency.
Nah, that’s just your lack of understanding
Yes, that is what they all use here because its just better. A roof keeps your tools dry and if someone wants to steal it they need to break in rather than just grabbing it.
Where is here? This is just pathetic. You ever load a skid of material/ equipment into a van? It’s do able with the right size fork lift I guess, pain in the ass though when you got two skids worth to load unload. How about when you only have a crane avaliable? How about when you have petrol cans / slip tanks to bring to a job site to fill up your crane/ excavator? You think a guy wants those fumes in his cab? Need a dump box for landscape work? Pull of your bed and put one on. Want to get into tow and recovery, pull of your bed and put a tow lift on. Need a flat deck? Guess what you got it for the price of fun. Need a welding rig? Guess what it’s right there put the welder in the back and gas bottles. What you gona fill the van cab with exaust fumes from the welder and risk leaking oxy/propane/acetylene into your nice and dry van cab? But hey your shit will be dry right?
My guy, no one is saying that pick up trucks are useless. What they are saying is that trucks are too big and too expensive for what the majority of buyers use it for. Many Americans buy their pick up trucks for symbolic cultural status, not pragmatic trades use.
I once spent a summer installing new milking parlors at dairy farms in central PA. The welder, tanks, PPE, and the rest of our tools fit just fine into an old transit van with sliding side doors, rear double doors, a hitch to tow the generator, and a roof rack for large items like pipes and ladders. A box truck was used to deliver material pallets to each worksite.
The company I use for plumbing and HVAC uses vans. The carpet cleaning service I use has their cleaning machine built inside of a van. When I had to transport 50+ computers to refresh satellite office hardware I used a minivan with removable seats.
Could a pick up have done all those jobs? Absolutely. However, we didn’t need a pick up to do all those jobs, and the vehicles we did use were much smaller and less expensive. That is what people in this thread are saying. Most modern pick up trucks are not designed for trade use; today’s midsize pickups are larger than full-size pickups from 20 years ago, and they have the bells and whistles that you’d expect to see in a higher end passenger car, instead of the vinyl/plastic interiors that they used to have ~20 years ago.
EDIT: I just saw that the original person you responded to did say that no one needs a truck. They were probably being hyperbolic, but as there are numerous use cases for pick up trucks I can see where your push back came from.
Usually people needing bigger than a van here get flatbeds rather than US style pickup trucks
D’uh. Vans are more lockable, there’s more space, you can just walk straight into them, they have much shorter hoods so that more of their length can be for storage than for just being long for the sake of it, and they are way more modifiable than people think. A work van is still body-on-frame so they’re perfectly capable towing vehicles to boot.
Trucks do one thing better, and that is having a bed that can be removed/taken up for more useful things like fifth-wheel hookups and towing rigs. I guess you can also maybe put a single haybale in there, but actual farmers who aren’t cosplaying don’t move their shit one bale at a time while pretending they’re Ford Tough™.
U-haul rents pickups but there’s a reason you never really see them. Why would I go through all that trouble and cost and not at least get the van?
Do whatever they did thirty years ago. Do what they do in Europe or Japan.