But child sexual abuse is tradition in the Jewish faith: circumcision.
Talking about anything Zionists do is antisemitic.
Well, this is the country which had demonstrations defending their right to rape those of “vermin” etnicities and have even celebrated some such rapists in national television.
Israeli spy services were also deeply involved with Epstein.
Looks a lot like Israel is a country with a broad culture of rape.
Unfortunately, unsurprising. Zionists are filth. I will point out what should be obvious: That there are many Jews who don’t support them in any way, shape, or form. But zionists? You can’t get a lower form of scum.
I hope the victims recover…
considering they were the mastermind behind epstein islands/trafficking, its not really surprising they have it in thier own borders, or nearby ME countries.
Wtf are you on about?
Jeffery Epstein was a Mossad Agent. ‘The Finders’ cult active during (at least) the 1970s-1990s in the US were a Mossad and CIA group that specialized in trafficking children for various purposes zionists have now admitted to enjoying.
This is public non-controversial information. Zionism is genocide, zionism is pedophilia. If you are a zionist you think brown people need to die for you to live, and you like to fuck kids.
You know what? You’re absolutely correct. This is all public, non controversial information. Which is I will share this link so people here can actually read about this movement and see for themselves that you’re conspiracy theory nut that’s full of shit:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Finders_(movement)#1987_child_abuse_investigation
First of all, there’s literally zero mentions, connections, or even allegations that this weird movement had anything to do with Mossad, Israel, or Zionism. That’s literally you making stuff up.
Second of all, based on the article linked above, there’s also zero mentions of CIA involvement anywhere. The closest thing you’ll get to that is the cult founder’s wife and son used to work for the CIA. His son cut contact with him in 1985 when he started a home inspection business. There’s nothing in the article that mentions anything about this movement actually being run by the CIA. Again, the closest thing you’ll get to that is this:
The 1987 investigation received wider attention in 1993, when Henry T. “Skip” Clements, an officer in private-sector consulting and a resident of Stuart, Florida, obtained a copy of a report which stated that the Washington, D.C. police investigation into the Finders had been dropped as a “CIA internal matter.” Clements alleged that the Central Intelligence Agency had compelled the Customs Service to cease their 1987 investigation because the commune was used as a front to train agents. Clements’ allegations drew the interest of two U.S. representatives, Tom Lewis and Charlie Rose, leading to a Department of Justice investigation.[9][12] The CIA denied any involvement,[6] and CIA spokesman David Christian asserted that the 1993 accusations were a misunderstanding stemming from a CIA training contractor, Future Enterprises Inc. where one Finders member worked as a part-time accountant
Which doesn’t prove anything because the founder and his family lived in DC, and that’s where he formed his weird little cult, and as it so happens, government agencies like the CIA are big employers in that city. You’re making it sound as if this was a CIA run predecessor to Epstein island, which its not.
Finally, when you actually look at the alleged activities of this group, they were never even accused, let alone indicted on child trafficking. The only criminal activity this group has mentioned in the article is two members being arrested for misdemeanor child abuse, which in this case was not sexual abuse, but neglect. The Florida’s state police as well federal authorities investigated the situation but couldn’t find any evidence for criminal activity so the charge were charged and the two men were released.
Most of the allegations about them being CIA run operation or them being a satanic cult or being an international pedo ring or whatever all comes from the media, which as the sources in the article imply were done to capitalize on the Satanic Panic that was happening in the 80s.
Now, here’s the thing. If you’re critical of this group, that’s fine. If you’re critical of the law enforcement investigations done on this group, that’s also fine. If you’re skeptical of the CIA, go right ahead. However, what’s not fine is when you literally make up shit and try to pass it on as fact. Your claims have no evidence, no sources, no substance, nothing. What I posted here is public information, and it contradicts what you said. Meaning that you’re either really ignorant or you’re a conspiracy theory nut who’s spreading misinformation. Either way, it’s unacceptable and you need to do better.
Nice try. There are connections with the CIA even if they aren’t a smoking gun. They protected them and sent agents to train with them as well.
https://apnews.com/article/4c5cd8141e930159ea3e4f0492a41ade
Furthermore there is a long history of letting child molesters flee to Isreal and using child rape as blackmail. This includes Epstein.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/how-jewish-american-pedophiles-hide-from-justice-in-israel/
You can pretend all you want, but all I see is a defender of pedophiles using doubt to sow discord. We know they are molesting children. We know POTUS is in on it. We know Israel used Mossad and the US used the CIA to supply children to wealthy people as rewards and blackmail.
All I read there is a “we investigated ourselves and saw no wrongdoing” kind of deal, with the extra steps of collusion between government organizations and judges in their pockets.
If you want to criticize tge investigations, that’s perfectly fine. I’m merely pointing out how the person I’m replying to is simply lying and making things up despite them insisting that their claims are public knowledge.
Honestly the left needs more conspiracy, the right has too long controlled that demographic.
That’s a lot of words for “I’m a pedophile and I want to fuck kids” but you do you I guess.
This is the level of intelligence, or rather, the lack thereof, that I expect from conspiracy theroy whackos
So it’s not a conspiracy theory, you’re just unable google things.
Because you’re a pedophile. And you desperately want the pedophiles in charge to not ever be held accountable.
“Oh there’s totally not a coordinated global human trafficking ring funded by literally all of the world’s wealthiest people and protected by literally the most advanced and expensive militaries on the planet… it was just one guy that suspiciously won the lottery three times during his lifetime and was just pictured with every single rich and powerful person over 40 years.”
You pedos make me sick.
Ah yes, the grand googler has hit me with a rando substack article that’s filled with ads (placed by the authors btw) trying to fearmonger people into buying gold from them. Skimming through the article, which I’m 99% sure is generated by chatgpt, is literally just a rehash of the wiki article that I posted with no additional information provided.
There’s still NOTHING in the article that you yourself posted that supports ANY of your claims. You don’t have a moral high ground when you’ve proven yourself to be the liar that you’re being criticized as. I’m asking you to prove what you said, it’s really that simple. You haven’t been able to do it, you keep trying to assert that you’re right while wagging your finger as if you’re a moral authority on anything.
You can’t squirm your way out of this. There’s no 4d chess logic, there’s no connecting the magical dots, there’s no opening your third eye. You either provide sources that directly prove the claims that you made or your failure to do so validates my criticisms of you by default. If you’re a conspiracy whacko who’s lying and spreading misinformation, then prove me wrong and post your sources. Go claim by claim and spell it out for me, I’ll be waiting but I know you won’t come up with anything.
Do you live under a rock?
No, I just have a tendency to call out misinformation when I see it.
Every link within that news website leads to more of the same website. The last place I saw this was rebel media.
I’m not out to discredit etc but I do think it may be wise to look for external confirmation.
That very article has several outgoing links, in addition to the explicit mentions of news broadcaster Kan 11:
- https://www.jfeed.com/news-israel/gush-etzion-ritualistic-abuse (Gush Etzion Regional Council acknowledged ritualistic sexual abuse cases in its communities)
- https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-856407 (survivors testify)
- https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-884502 (senior Rabbi urges to take the reports seriously)
- https://www.timesofisrael.com/horrifying-testimonies-seek-to-lift-shroud-of-silence-around-ritual-sex-abuse-claims/ (survivors testify; comprehensive account of the non-investigations)
The part about Avraham Bezalel being forced to resign from the Knesset was widely covered, as was the questioning of Hanoch Milwidsky by the police.
I haven’t chased down sources beyond that, having limited time.
Then the story should be posted by an actual reputable source. Questionable sources shouldn’t tolerated on the basis of technicalities.
What you’re doing here is called critical thinking. That’s not allowed on Lemmy because basic information hygiene is frowned upon. Doing so make you a genocide supporter in the eyes of the community here. You’re only ever allowed to criticize questionable sources when they publish something that the wider community disagrees with.
See my reply to the same comment
… shaking Israel’s religious-Zionist sector.
I kinda doubt that, they must be just “slammed” about the whole thing getting out though.
There is literally no possible bottom to the pit of evil these Zionist revel in to achieve their Jewish state.
You ain’t wrong, but this is shit done within the settler communities to other Jews, not the Palestinians.
But everyone is involved not just settlers
She said she had received testimonies from several women who alleged that ‘doctors, educators, police officers, and past and present members of the Knesset’ were involved in the abuse.
The common thread seems to be that the instigators are from the same Haredi faction. The perpetrators are from a broader range of groups (if the allegations are true).
I mean, if police and government is involved we can safely assume it’s country wide issue, not just some isolated incident in fringe group of people
Raping Children is TERRIBLE! Wait ISRAEL is doing it? Your ANTI SEMETIC if you HATE Raping Children!
-The BBC!
Far more than the BBC, including many here on lemmy. Fucking swine (them, not you).
yeah i wonder what german law has to say about this
We’re talking about you @PugJesus@lemmy.world
Also I think it’s hilarious I had to look up how to tag people on Lemmy and the post I come across is two years ago and they’re asking how to tag users and mention Pug as an example.
He calls what Israel is doing a genocide, so I’m not sure he fits in that category.
He banned me from his community for calling out Democratic politicians for supporting Israel’s genocide soooo 🤷♂️
What’s the context with Pug?
getting banned by zionist trash is an award
Ooh are there details?
What fucking scum.
‘Shaking’ the sector my ass they seem all in on this bullshit.
I’m scared to even click this article :’)
My first reaction to this headline, coming from a german speaking country, was that it sounds like a neonazi hitpiece (it wouldn’t be the first time that neonazis would spread allegations like this).
The article quickly made me realize that those allegations have a lot of substance and credibility.
Any zionists here who wanna explain why i now have to say that some fucking nazis had a point?
Zionism is as much representative of Judaism as NAZIsm is representative of all Germanic people.
Just because these ethno-Fascist White Supremacist groups claim they represent a specific ethnicity doesn’t mean they do.
Granted, Zionism has lasted a lot longer and there is a lot more parroting of the whole equating Judaism with Zionism in countries with a captured Press and/or Fascists traditions, so it’s understandable that many will actually believe that idea as pushed by Zionists, but there are plenty of Jewish voices saying that’s not so (curiously one which is called Jewish Voices For Peace and has just been deemed by a German Court an “Extremist Organization” for their criticism of Israel, which is interesting given the parallels between NAZIsm and Zionism).
Anyways, there is no such thing as a politican ideology or a country which represents an entire ethnicity - that would logically require that all people of a ethnicity are the same (i.e. “they’re all the same”) which is a foundational stone of Racism. I guess most people who believe the equivalence between Israel/Zionism and the Jewish People seem to have just accepted it a face value and never have really analysed it it down to its component parts and thus did not realize that such equation of one and the other relies on pure ethnic prejudice about people based on ethnicity.
What is the polling on % of American Jews supporting Israel? Or individual synagogues being pro or anti Zionist? One Jewish zionist I was talking to recently said Jewish Voices for Peace represented a tiny minority and was very dismissive about the extent of antizionism among Jews in general but I’m sure she has a bias.
I vaguelly remembers reading that in the latest polls about half of Jews in the US do not support the actions of Israel, tough the ones who are actually against the existence of Israel are much less (I think it was less than 20%, but am not sure anymore).
I’m in Europe and a lot of the Press here is a lot more open about the actions of Israel and less prone to the Manufacturing ConsentI spin on stories about the actions of Israel, so I suspect that in average the views of Jews here towards Israel are more negative than for those in the US (though I suppose that depends on the country: I wouldn’t be surprised if hard-core Zionist beliefs were more common in the UK and Germany than in the rest of Europe). This would be consistent with the view of Israel amongst the population in general in Europe being a lot more negative than in the US.
Independently of that, were exactly do you set the “these guys represent you and everybody like you even if you disagree” boundary? In other words, how many Jews must believe that “Israel does not represent me” for it to be false that Israel to represent the Jewish People? Also, if the numbers fall below that at one point, does that mean that Israel doesn’t represent the Jewish People anymore or is it a sticky representation whether people want to or not?
The whole domain of anything or anybody representing an entire ethnicity without even a Democratic election is a massive minefield of Prejudicial and even Racist presumptions.
Beyond that, the entire subject of Zionism and Israel representing an entire etnicity (the Jewish People) carries the very same strong stink as NAZIsm and NAZI Germany representing an entire etnicity (the Arian Race).
Nazis didn’t have a point. The zionist project is a continuation of nazism, not judaism. Nazis also abused children in horrible ways. Ethnosupremacy leads to (and is a product of) corrosion of all morality and social norms
The zionist project is a continuation of nazism, not judaism.
The Zionist project perdates Nazism by several decades. It may be morally abhorrent, but it’s not Nazism. It’s a me-too version of European enthno-nationalism combined with colonialism, both of which were widespread in the 19th century. In Europe, ethno-nationalism led to nation-states coalescing such as Italy and Germany, but at the expense of ethnic minorities whose languages and cultures were suppressed. The colonialist variant led to oppression of indigenous peoples, especially in Africa, but to a lesser extent in the Caribbean, Polynesia and other parts of the world.
Within European colonialism, it was not unusual for members of disadvantaged groups to be the ones to become colonists (for example, the Catalans in Cuba, Baseques in Spanish colonies, or the Scots in far-flung corners of the British empire). Jews in 19th-century Europe were still subject to discrimination (though in most parts, their position would improve in the early 20th century until the fascists gained power), so it’s not surprising to see emigration to a new colony being perceived by some as an option.
So that’s the historical context. None of that makes it right, anymore than what the French did in Algeria was right. There’s a logic to ethno-nationalism and colonialism that makes oppression inevitable and genocide likely. But conflating Zionism with Nazism is neither correct nor helpful. It’s evil in its own way, but more in alignment with other ethno-nationalist and colonialist movements than Nazism. Claiming differently just allows objectors to point to the many unique features of Nazism to refute the claim, distracting from the real point, that such murderous injustice is an intrinsic feature of both ethno-nationalism and colonialism.
What are some of these unique nazi features not present in zionism?
Dive into the Epstein files, Ghislaine Maxwell and for bonus credit the Franklin incident. I wasn’t surprised sadly
ghislaine following in her fathers footstep with the whole zionism bit, ghislaine just went the whole extra mile.
Yup. Me neither. Wherever there is an excess of money/power and entitlement, some perverted shitheel is going to organize pedophilia (and/or other sexual extremes) with other perverted shitheels. The entitlement tells them they should have whatever they want, then the money/power gets it for them and keeps it protected from external interference, and the train rolls on.
Epstein himself made a career of trading influence and favors on exactly that: occasionally he made the mistake of offering sexual access to minors to the wrong person and then he’d back off immediately, saying, “No, that’s not what I meant, bad joke, but wouldn’t you like [some other elite thing, like meeting a celeb] instead,” and no one would even bat an eye.
Israel is already credibly accused of raping everyone but children – men, women, prisoners, detainees, settlers – when it comes to Palestinians, activists, and others, so who legitimately thinks they’re not ALSO raping the kids?
Israelis applauded the two soldiers accused of raping a Palestinian man in detention, and of course the charges were dropped, so when that policy comes from the top down and many are even applauding the rapists, what possible restriction of sexual violence then applies to the children?
When you strip away insane amounts of money and power, and the perks and exclusivity and protection that money and power buy, you will always find that evil is indeed banal, and the vices that consume the poorest also consume the richest.
See the following articles for graphic descriptions of how Israel is using sexual violence as an act of war:
The Silence That Meets the Rape of Palestinians - NYT
Israeli soldiers using sexual assault to force Palestinians out of West Bank, report says - The Guardian
“More than a human can bear”: Israel’s systematic use of sexual, reproductive and other forms of gender-based violence since October 2023 - UN Human Rights org (OHCHR)And there are a lot more where that came from, unfortunately.
Not a zionist, but you thankfully don’t have to. It is a proven fact now that the israeli state does a lot of messed up objectively evil stuff, but that was never the point of the nazis where I live at least. What I have heard from that crowd, is that all semitic people groups, especially the Jews, should be killed off. There is thankfully nothing in the news to back up that idea, and it is as insane as arguing for global persecution of all baptists in retaliation for American wars in the middle east. The neonazis I have met have simply hopped on this latest war to spread their hate opportunistically.
This is conflating religion and ethnicity. Wanting to see people liberated from a religion you abhor is very, very different from wanting them all dead.
Of course it is not a perfect comparison, I don’t know of that many ethnoreligious groups with strong ties to one nation state, a strong and historically significant minority presence across much of the world and global recognition on the internet. I hope I still got the main point across though, that the main neo-nazi position is completely insane, and not really related to the atrocities committed by the israeli state at all.
I really can not believe you now have to admit the Zionists are Nazis to someone!!! I mean we are talking about the chosen people! Our precious chosenite, this is not possible!
Won’t anyone think of the childr… no wait.
Given that there has been very little evidence for “satanic” child sexual abuse cults despite rumors going back at least half a century, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is some relation. The devil’s in the details, and these reports ring absolutely true personally.
Please don’t take this as anything against Judaism as a whole, some of my best friends, family, nicest people yada yada. It’s like any powerful religion.
Nothing satanic, it’s just abuse with some dressed up frills to get the victim to accept their abuse. And Israel is choke full of abusers.
Even a survey found that the majority didn’t think forcing another person into sex is considered rape.
College Study: 41 Percent of Women Students Don’t See Forced Sex With Acquaintance as Rape. 61 percent of the male students polled in a small college survey did not equate forced sex with an acquaintance as rape.
That’s my point. Maybe there were “satanic” ritualistic abuse cults, maybe not. But it seems increasingly likely there have been Zionist ritualistic abuse cults for a long time. Their pentagram a… hexagram?
I think these stats are a reflection of just how toxic Israeli culture has become in some areas. It’s a slippery slope from → these types of people are not human to → inhumanity applied to other groups, as we all know. Eventually it is applied on oneself when it becomes so ingrained in the culture
I think it’s more the case that relatively inward-looking communities (for example, religious cults or factions) enable abuse by being suspicious of outside authority and opposing accountability for their leaders. Instead, they close ranks and try to hide their problems. That may mean solving them themselves, or more often, protecting the perpetrators and laying on the denial.
It’s a depressing fact that child abuse happens everywhere. There’s a certain, probably irreducible, percentage of any population who are sick, evil scum who prey on the vulnerable. The only question is whether the problem is confronted or hidden. In that way, Israeli culture is no different than that anywhere else.
And for groups like this it makes perfect sense that many would see reporting it and publicizing it as having a risk of hurting the group as a whole, victim included. You try internal means of dealing with the issue if you can, or you try warning potential victims, or you just try to move on.
It’s one of the reasons it’s so bad to associate groups with unrelated crimes and heinous acts.
The massive problem with this ritualised csa is that it is deliberately conscripting people who aren’t that way inclined to participate to benefit the depravities of a few and presumably provide blackmail powers. This is vastly different from covering up for rogue individuals in power dynamic, it is deliberately much more damaging to everyone involved, even normalised, and it provides extremely strong obedience. There is a presumption of no possible outside authority in this scenario by those involved, by design. I would hope that this is unusual at this level of seniority within a culture, but I have my doubts.
is there some kind of doctrinal root for this behavior? to have so many people involved from across the spectrum of Israeli society would suggest there is some small kernel here that can justify the behavior. anything?
EDIT: should have noted I am looking for responses that are NOT antisemitic.
so i’m not sure whether there’s a doctrinal root in it or anything. i never really looked into judaism specifically, but i studied a lot of philosophy and mythology classes and i also talked to a lot of people so i heard some stories. basically some indigenous communities have it too, the puberty is seen as the time where the “human wakes up” (initiation rite), the consciousness is formed, and people differentiate into their later function just like body cells differentiate into one of many types after being cloned from stem cells.
a typical example is boys undergoing puberty rites that sometimes involve some kind of specific pain (like sticking needles through the skin, etc) in order to give them the warrior spirit, because they get used to a live of pain sothat their brain shifts its perception and they don’t consciously register it anymore. puberty rites for females are less common and typically less extreme. i’ll see whether i can link some sources/examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bora_(Australian)
Bora is an initiation ceremony of the Aboriginal people of Eastern Australia. The word “bora” also refers to the site on which the initiation is performed. At such a site, boys, having reached puberty, achieve the status of men. The initiation ceremony differs from Aboriginal culture to culture, but often, at a physical level, involved scarification, circumcision, subincision and, in some regions, also the removal of a tooth.[1] During the rites, the youths who were to be initiated were taught traditional sacred songs, the secrets of the tribe’s religious visions, dances, and traditional lore. Many different clans would assemble to participate in an initiation ceremony. Women and children were not permitted to be present at the sacred bora ground where these rituals were undertaken.
just one example but there’s countless others from all over the world.
uh. well. it is canon if that helps. https://jwa.org/encyclopedia/article/violence-against-women-in-the-hebrew-bible
There’s a lot of government and religious NGO money funneled around Israel for religious schools and student stipends, so any unscrupulous rabbis looking to start an abusive cult have plenty of opportunities handed to them. It’s really not unlike the various Christian cults that sprouted up on compounds in the American West, taking advantage of cheap resources and isolation tactics to build organizations that beat the shit out of children or do whatever else they want.
Edit: I think the settlements in particular create a similar physical dynamic, where living on stolen land ringed with fences and security checkpoints allows leaders to create an insular community that keeps victims in and accountability out. Even twenty minutes’ drive from Jerusalem, no one gets into a settlement without arranged permission, and a housewife with no car may as well be stranded out on the prairie.
is there some kind of doctrinal root for this behavior? to have so many people involved from across the spectrum of Israeli society would suggest there is some small kernel here that can justify the behavior. anything?
EDIT: should have noted I am looking for responses that are NOT antisemitic.
You pose a valid question, but there’s no legitimate Jewish doctrine behind it, any more than there was legitimate Christian doctrine behind it eighty, ninety years ago when the Nazis were doing it to the Jews.
This is not so much a religious question as it is a problem of human nature. When your own national leader makes it clear that even the worst of human behavior is acceptable when you can plead patriotism in its defense, you will find that tacitly given permission magnified beyond your wildest imagination in short order as people with darkness inside them realize there really is nothing holding them back from having a go themselves.
If it were something doctrinal to the Jewish faith, you would also be seeing it outside Israel. If anything, it is a perversion of actual Judaism, just as white nationalism in the US is a total perversion of Christianity.
If you’ve never read it before, Hannah Arendt’s Eichmann in Jerusalem: A Report on the Banality of Evil is a great read.
Mmm, some practices are doctrinal in some branches of Judaism. Just read a comment below.
If it were something doctrinal to the Jewish faith, you would also be seeing it outside Israel.
Did we forgot about this?
If we want to seriously talk about religions and what is and is not acceptable in our society we need to be honest with ourselves.
Yes, you should be honest with us. I note that you did not actually supply either the “branches of Judaism” nor the specific doctrine you claim supports this. So if it’s doctrinal, name it. That’s a simple enough ask.
Jewish people and Jewish doctrine are two different things, just as Christian people and Christian doctrine are two different things.
You’ve showed me an example of Jewish inhumanity, that’s great. Before I posted this comment, I posted another one all about that with linked examples on a grand scale.
All this is utterly meaningless in terms of describing doctrine, not just for Judaism but for every faith.
For every Jewish cruelty or inhumanity you show me, I can show you endless Christian and even atheist cruelty and inhumanity. The bounds of cruelty exceed doctrine and apply to the humans underneath; the doctrine is only relevant insofar as it directly supports the act or is twisted to serve as justification for obviously immoral and even amoral acts.
If what you posted were common only to Jews everywhere, you might have something. But they don’t. Organized pedophilia has been found everywhere, as have people who claim to be adherents of benevolent religion and then turn around and act in ways even that religion labels as abhorrent.
People take doctrine and twist it to their own ends. It doesn’t mean the doctrine is bad (or good); it just means people who do evil also lie to justify their evil deeds, and that happens everywhere, inside religion and outside of it.
When I first wrote the comment to which you are responding now, I thought the question was about the Israeli war atrocities being committed against Palestinians and I wrote my comment from that point of view; in that I was in error.
Yes, you should be honest with us. I note that you did not actually supply either the “branches of Judaism” nor the specific doctrine you claim supports this. So if it’s doctrinal, name it. That’s a simple enough ask.
Ok, I think you know but I will play. The Jews of the New York incident above were hasidic jews, chabad-lubavich in particular.
Can we say that all sects that think that their people are the “best” “chosen” “above” “special” is wrong and we should NOT tolerate them?
Jewish people and Jewish doctrine are two different things, just as Christian people and Christian doctrine are two different things.
Yes they are different things and we can condemn both of them if immoral. Why are we talking about christians now?
For every Jewish cruelty or inhumanity you show me, I can show you endless Christian and even atheist cruelty and inhumanity. The bounds of cruelty exceed doctrine and apply to the humans underneath; the doctrine is only relevant insofar as it directly supports the act or is twisted to serve as justification for obviously immoral and even amoral acts.
Again, this is not a dick race. And yes, every religion and every person can be cruel and inhumane but in the year of our lord 2026 we are witnessing a total out of control ultra religious cult committing genocide with ZERO repercussions and managing an international blackmail paedophilic and human trafficking ring with the most powerful people in the world, including the current sitting US president.
So excuse me if I don’t go checking the Buddhism doctrine to find dirt on them, doesn’t seem urgent now.
Let me ask you a question then. Can you name another holy book used as a religious law that contains so much disgusting abhorrent behaviour as the Talmud?
“A girl who engaged in intercourse when she was less than three years old is still considered a virgin”
what fucking religion has a book like this?!
Ok, I think you know but I will play. The Jews of the New York incident above were hasidic jews, chabad-lubavich in particular.
No, I really did not know. Thank you for naming them. I will read more about them.
Can we say that all sects that think that their people are the “best” “chosen” “above” “special” is wrong
YES.
and we should NOT tolerate them?
Hmmm. For myself, I already avoid all religion, especially of the Abrahamic sort. But you’re talking about tolerating people, and that’s kind of a different story for me: I do not engage with the overly religious to begin with, for multiple reasons. (I quite like pagans, though.)
But if someone is of a particular creed and I don’t know about it, they are obviously well-behaved enough to keep that to themselves. I would say that such people, even as members of sects who think themselves above the rest of us – because remember, not all are there by choice or even because they actually believe – are fine by me.
Or to put it another way, if they are not shoving their personal elitist self-belief in my face via shows of entitlement or shitty behavior, I don’t care what faith they hold.
Why are we talking about christians now?
As an illustration that there is no difference whatsoever between belief systems when the real problem is evil behavior, perpetrated by humans. When you’re sprayed by a skunk, do you really give a shit how wide the stripe down its back?
Also, I left Christianity many years ago, but before that I was deep into it for decades and studied a lot, so it’s always where I start when I think about religions filled with self-righteous pricks who twist dogma and doctrine to justify evil.
in the year of our lord 2026
Not my lord. I’d rather have tertiary syphilis, thanks.
we are witnessing a total out of control ultra religious cult committing genocide with ZERO repercussions and managing an international blackmail paedophilic and human trafficking ring with the most powerful people in the world, including the current sitting US president.
All of that is 100% true, inasmuch as I myself know or would argue. But now that you’ve responded, I’m pretty sure our difference lies in your willingness (or my unwillingness, take your pick) to extrapolate outwards from the personal identity of the perpetrators of those great evils to tar vast swathes of humans with the same brush by simple virtue of membership. That’s not my thing. I see an asshole, I don’t go looking past their shit to see if other assholes match.
At the deepest level that is, at best, a self-protective behavior and outlook, and you’ll see it the most when people have personally been eviscerated by evil in the name of a god.
For myself I have focused more on getting the myth of Christianity out of my system, but I have no judgement for those who are seared by the ongoing abuses and control of organized religion, especially if they grew up in or around that.
Let me ask you a question then. Can you name another holy book used as a religious law that contains so much disgusting abhorrent behaviour as the Talmud?
That is an excellent question, and the truth is that I do not know, because my knowledge of the Talmud is superficial at best. Coming from Christianity, and such gems as the early fathers, such as Tertullian who thought women do not have souls, I’d say if you put them side by side they’d probably end up within spitting range of each other. I usually did not go into the source language for the repulsive bits, because that’s not what I was in it for, but they are certainly there. The Quran is also not a shining example of how to behave toward certain members of society, so we’re back to the whole Abrahamic thing.
what fucking religion has a book like this?!
That’s not religion, that’s self-delusion. My question for you would be whether that particular line, and those like it, are still being used to justify the foul and horrific sexual use of children, and by whom. If it is and they are, they should be lined up and shot, NOT for their religion but for their unholy use of the bodies of innocent children, AND their abhorrent use of religion to justify and self-excuse those vast evils. (If that’s the actual belief and practice of the sect you mentioned by name, then I genuinely did not know and I will stand corrected.)
You’ve clearly thought this through (which is more than I can say for the usual fare here, so thank you) and we’re not disagreeing on facts, as far as I can tell. It’s the context in which I personally hold those facts contrasted with the personal context in which you hold those facts, and I would not take my own position out further than I have. People do tremendous evil. For myself, I think all religions have some measure of repugnant shit, especially the Abrahamic variety.
Yet if someone holds a personal faith that lifts them up, lifts those around them up, that helps them to live in a hard and brutal world, then I personally won’t tar them with the same brush that I absolutely reserve in full force for the perpetrators of those evils you named. But you gotta do you, and that’s not just a blithe, easy statement. This is something I had to fight through to clarity for myself, it took years, and I expect anyone deeply fucked by religion has to do the same. Maybe that’s you as well.
So honestly, if I were to ask you one thing it would be this: look at your position, what you’ve written, and ask yourself what the end result is in terms of lifting yourself and your inner world up in such a way that you are no longer crushed by the evils you see around you, and which you may have even suffered yourself. Or to put it another way, “If I decide this is how I want my worldview to be, will the way in which I am viewing the vast evil around me advance my well-being or improve my life in any way?” When I left Christianity after decades, that was what I had to ask myself. It was quite possibly one of the most important questions I have ever been asked. So that’s what I am asking you as well: not for public discussion, but for you to consider privately, over time, along with the well-stated facts of your case.
I appreciate your thoughtful response, and if I have provided offense in any way, I apologize. That’s not my goal, and I hope that is self-apparent.
EDITED TO ADD that I looked up that sect, Chabad-Lubavitch, and beyond the mattress thing being discredited I honestly did not find any mention of pedophilia in regard to that sect. Trump and Putin both apparently love them, though, which is not in their favor. I will continue to look. If you want to toss me some links I will read them.
Chabad are mostly notable for being less insular than most Orthodox sects, doing a lot of outreach to secular/Reform/Conservative Jews, and thus ending up as one of the big names in overseas funding for Zionism in the modern day. They’re really the mainstream face of Orthodox Judaism, and the fucked up abuse scandals in Israel have tended to come from fringe, Messianic sects that the state’s Rabbinate and larger organizations like Chabad can at least pretend to distance themselves from.
As for the Talmud, it’s weird how much it tends to get played up in antisemitic narratives, because in my (very limited) experience it is really, incredibly dry and mostly boring. It’s like reading Reddit comments on every page of the scriptures, where 5 incredibly pedantic nerds are arguing over what exactly counts as a fork, or what a story about a wage dispute is supposed to say about contract law and social hierarchy. There’s a predictably authoritarian “just listen to your boss and your rabbi” bent to the morals it extracts, but at the end of the day it’s a couple thousand pages of mundane, day-to-day legal doctrine. Anyone can learn Talmud, it’s just a lot of effort, and like a lot of difficult religious texts, it mostly ends up being a source local authority figures can pull out to settle arguments in their favor.
thank you for a really thoughtful response!
They believe they’re better than everybody else, and that most of the rest isn’t even fully human. Just like most of other destructive ideologies in history.
So… Nazi’s?
The ancient Greeks and Romans certainly thought this sort of behavior was typical and foundational to Christian and Jewish religious practices and fought hard to liberate people from the clutches of those religious cults in antiquity.
Funny thing: the blood libel (the allegation that a group was murdering and cannibalizing children) was originally a Roman accusation against the early Christians. It was only later used by the Christians against the Jews.
Judaism as a whole is one big cult, people just ignore it because it doesn’t affect most of us but if you went into Talmud and other traditional jewish writings you’d find they’re just divorced from reality because of their traditions. I’ll give you one example, and go read yourself if you want more
