A reminder that you can’t vote your way out of FASCISM!
I mean, yes, and also, if I lived in an encroaching neo-feudalist/climate-changed induced wasteland–not that I know anything about that–and we voted for warlord, I would probably still vote pragmatically/tactically.
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What agency or power do you have in government? You are picking from a pre-approved list of would-be rulers.
Edit: and to be clear, I am not telling you not to vote, but for fucks sake stop pretending you have actually done anything until you have actually done anything. Voting is beneath the minimum for that.
Democrats are not left of center, they are not even remotely close to center. They are barely to the left, and in many cases on par, with trump
Irrelevant. Conservatives want everyone left of center to not vote.
It’s not irrelevant, of you are a liberal you are NOT left of center
Might as well just let the Nazis in I guess. I’m willing to burn down everything if I can’t have everything I want.
The Nazis ARE in, electing the blue Nazis does nothing to get rid of the red ones.
I mean, whatever your wanna call that area of the Overton window we’re in.
If you like the phrasing “conservatives want everyone who isn’t going to vote for them to not vote” better than read it as that.
I would be happy to entertain any viable alternatives.
Voting is easy, it takes very little effort. Even just the pretense of them not being warlords and the modicum of protection that pretense provides is worth the negligible effort of voting. It doesn’t mean you should stop doing more effective things, but those things are not undermined by voting in the least.
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“someone disagrees with me? Clearly an evil foreigner!”
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I helped organize a 600 person union, I was doing rapid response in Minneapolis, and I helped organize the Worker Assemblies in Minneapolis.
Both sides fucking suck.
Is there a side that while sucking is still better than the other? Both sides suck, but they are not the same.
To be honest with you, every time the dems have had power they have squandered the opportunity to prevent further corruption in this country, or to protect our future on a long enough timeline to negate the aftereffects of the next election cycle. That inaction and useless hand wringing is such a flaccid and disgustingly inept response to the very real dangers and very pressing concerns of the near future. If they can’t be trusted to combat republicans, then what’s the fucking point?
And that rapid response in Minneapolis was under Biden?
No. But I did watch as liberal politicians across Minnesota tried to coopt our worker assemblies in attempts to neuter our movement for their own political goals.
“No” is the word that matters.
GOP ICE is killing people, and that’s exactly the same as Dem politicians coopting you?
Thanks for proving my point.
Dems have defended and over funded ICE to help get it where it is right now.
The dems had a chance to defund ice and shut down the govenrment until it was eliminated. They stabbed us in the back instead.
We know that the GOP is the enemy. But pretending like Democrats are our allies while they hold a knife behind their back doesn’t help either.
We, the working class people, do all the work to improve this country. But democratic politicians want us to believe that only they can make things better. We’ve been waiting for universal healthcare since the 30s, during the great depression. Liberals pushed the Taft-Hartley act and went around the president to pass it. Liberals only liked MLK and Malcolm X after they died, and probably think Fred Hampton and Huey Newton had it coming.
If you’re expecting Democrats to save us, you will be sorely mistaken.
Edit: also, point to the part where I said that they were the same.
Quick history lessons.
Frederick Douglas was an escaped slave.
He’d made himself one of the most well-known and influential speakers in America.
In 1860 he turned his back on the strong pro-Abolition candidate and embraced Lincoln. Abe has said that he put saving the Union ahead of freeing the slaves.
Douglas decided that backing Abe and getting a foot in the door was smarter than demanding Abolition and losing.
Bayard Rustin was a gay man who was one of Martin Luther King’s top aides.
Rustin never pushed King to talk about gar rights, because he knew that 1960s America wasn’t ready for that.
I’m aware of both people, and their many accomplishments.
Believe it or not, I’m also a strategic organizer. There’s a time for strategic compromise. We are not in one of those moments.
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I think our answer is outside of politics. Liberal Democratic politics is only useful insofar as slowing the erosion of our rights while living under the ruling class. We have to get organized to have a national general strike and completely stop the system until we have an equitable society.
And then we could all ride our winged unicorns to the great banquet in the sky where nobody gets sick and everyone is a good person.
The mass strike on jan 23rd in Minnesota was so effective that over 50 CEOs sent a letter to the president asking for de-escalation, and reduced ICE presence in Minneapolis by 90%. After a 1 day mass strike.
Maybe you don’t believe in the power you hold as a worker, but I do.
Only 49 states to go.
Why do you think I’m organizing unions? MN did great, but it was a practice run. We need more people to be organized to our cause. I cannot be in every state at the same time, but I can make my state respond better next time.
Other areas also participated in the mass strike, but it couldn’t hold a candle to the MN turnout. Organizers like me know what they need to do in their state, but we’re not ready for a national strike committee yet.
Oh Jesus, he thinks president peanut did everything right. 🤣🤣🤣
The issue is the enemy is obfuscated. Like grapes of wrath… “Well who owns the banks?”
“And now the owner men grew angry. You’ll have to go. But it’s ours, the tenant men cried. No. The bank, the monster owns it. You’ll have to go. We’ll get our guns, like Grampa when the Indians came. What then? Well—first the sheriff, and then the troops. You’ll be stealing if you try to stay, you’ll be murderers if you kill to stay. The monster isn’t men, but it can make men do what it wants.”
What’s really fumy is people only noticing at election time what we say all the time.
That’s the only time the Liberals ever pay attention to anything.
You got that right.
how many times have you been through this. it’s tiring even watching your side win. nothing big changes after, just the small stuff.
And that is worse than big stuff changing in the wrong direction because…?
I never said it was.
You don’t know who’s on the front lines because you’ve never been to an actual protest. And both sides implies that there are two different sides. There is not. There is one side and then there is the working class.
You don’t know a thing about that person. It’s fun to think that only you know the answers, but at some point you have to grow up and realize that you don’t know them either and being a smug dickhead accomplishes nothing.
I’ve been to actual protests since the 90s. I can see that you’re the issue, not those protestors I was next to. I know how they vote, you would call them the boogeyman while they support your cause.
If they are liberals they don’t fight for the same issues
Mamdoni enters the chat
Ahh, who threw his wife under the bus and profusely apologizes to genocidal Zionists.
What must it be like to live in your make-believe world…
Holy stockings, their memory shrinks from decades to a year, the closer to election time it gets. Hey, grasp at straws. Maybe you’ll find something the size of a pool noodle to float.
Yes, Mamdani is such a Zionist bootlicker that the leader of Israel found it necessary to spend a significant portion of his address to the international UN complaining about the mayor of an American city. Are you just scared of him because he is brown or something?
Lol. 🎭
Do you deny that such a speech happened?
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Check your liberalism at the door, it’s not welcome here
But the puppy won’t solve all of my problems and also all of the rest of the world’s problems instantly and in perpetuity.
The puppy will commit genocide though
What a great idea. Let’s return to this exact same circumstances that gave us Trump. Because the next version of Trump that Democrats give us can’t possibly be as bad.
So vote how then?
The best answer is actually to pay more attention to your local elections than national ones, and vote based on issues that impact you directly.
Organize outside of the two-party system and against the system itself directly. Stop treating voting like it’s possible to get political change with it.
I think it’s pretty clear than it can get political change, the question is if it can cause the kind of radical systemic change that we eventually need
It would be reductive to say that elections make absolutely 0 change whatsoever, I agree, which is what I meant when I said “political change.” The DNC and GOP fighting is bourgeois infighting over which factions of capitalists have power.
I figured that’s what you meant, although I don’t think others necessarily share that definition of “political change”
Fair.
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The answer is go organize directly against the system itself, not treat the DNC as a vessel for positive change.
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Trump is 100% a biproduct of the dncs failure to protect the interests of the working class
Clinton literally supported his primary run
Wasn’t that because she thought it would prevent a republican win by pitting her against an easy opponent? Hillary was more stupid and arrogant than malicious there.
regardless of her reasons, she is to blame
To BlueMaga, being personally crass and immoral is infinitely worse than exterminating thousands of brown people
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Actually no, unions had to fight liberalism for their rights, same for women, people of color and those wheelchair bound.
But also the democrats are way less bad than the republicans, saying they are equal is just siding with the republicans because why bother when both are the same. Democrats are still horrible, don’t get me wrong, but it is still easier with them in power rather than republicans
Snarling wolves, smiling foxes.
I’m very pro-union, but I dont think this is quite right. Unions have historically taken the lead on many issues of social justice for sure, and fought both parties to do so.
We also can’t just ignore things like The New Deal etc. or the fact that historically the only Republicans to be pro-union were the long gone liberal Republicans. Most of the direct anti union legislation of the past 100 years has also been proposed/passed by Republican political will.
If we paint all ‘liberal’ politics with the brush of neo liberal garbage, we will fall into an all sides trap that will only further the rightward ratchet, undercutting actual meaningful progress.
Personally I see evidence this happening both inside and outside of unions, and it will be neo-con garbage that wins out. Were rights for women, people of color, those wheelchair bound etc. Conservative ideology? I think not.
Not libertarian either, as that ideology will in practice leave some more equal than others, aka the rich and the bosses.
Democrats intentionally kneecap themselves to prevent progress
More like, folks like you do it for them and fuck us all over, no matter how we vote. Then you turn around and say it’s cause of how we voted.
It’s 100% how you voted, you believed the lies and supported ot
Blaming communists for capitalism’s failures is a bit silly IMO.
Oh sorry I didnt realize you were a democrat.
At least the warlords of the past had to occasionally lead from the front and show why they rule.
I’d love to see trump try and run a sortie over Iran to drop another bomb, or try and lead a ship through the straits. The war would be over very quickly.
How do the suits let them do that though?
Democracy is like a garden.
I learned that from Chance The Gardner.
That’s “Chauncey Gardiner” to you good sir.
