Anyone trying to overhaul a corrupt system would know that infiltrating it is a highly effective opposition tactic. You’re not speaking for progress, you’re speaking for contrarianism.
Edit - besides, she’s using political donations to feed people. Corrupt systems absolutely have uses for honest individuals, because your potential allies in poverty are starving to death and she is feeding them.
This isn’t infiltrating the vague concept of capitalism, it’s infiltrating congress. She’s not trying to climb some corporate ladder here.
What, exactly, has been more effective in the US? Capitalism still isn’t defeated, as far as I can tell.
What the fuck do you want her to do, stop? Go home?
If you want heroes, if you want martyrs, if you want real people with real power and real megaphones, you need to work with the tools you have available. Whatever else you’re doing hasn’t worked any better than what she’s doing. Unions are still operating under the umbrella of capitalism - they sign deals with capitalists all the time. Do you think we should stop unionizing?
yes. infiltrating capitalist institutions famously doesn’t work. we call those entrists.
i don’t care for lone wolf martyrs. be them entrists or shooters or bombers alike. those can be cathartic but this is it.
leftists organizing their own institutions is what historically works, and is a better use of talented people’s time and abilities.
and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.
and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.
… HAH. No… just, no. That’s not what centrism is, and that’s NOT the story of how we got the 8 hour workday.
We have (or in some cases had) the 8 hour workday, OSHA, social security, legally protected unions, etc as a result of the New Deal.
What was the New Deal?
Well, an extremely progressive “centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt - ran for President, and won. He took over the Presidency in the depths of the Great Depression, and Democrats attained majority in both chambers of congress.
They gained complete political power largely because Republican policies had sent the United States into an economic nosedive. They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.
Sound familiar?
He - alongside Congress - passed a whole bunch of legislation, created a whole bunch of federal agencies, and forced through massive leaps forward in labor protections and social welfare programs.
the new deal came about because of socialist pressure. thats also why it ain’t happening again, because there are barely any socialists in the us anymore.
grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions
who was supporting grassroots work reform? thats right, the socialists. under the threat of violence. saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.
“centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt
i literally said nothing about roosevelt or centrism in any of my responses to you. putting words in my mouth.
you are the one who should read a book, preferrably something not whitewashed by the CIA or something, cause holy shit.
You’re absolutely right - the New Deal was possible because:
They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.
That is in fact the grassroots support I’m talking about, thanks.
How do you think we had a Congress and a President who were willing to listen to those grassroots movements?
That’s right - Americans elected a whole bunch of people like the candidate in this article.
since you are repeating yourself ill take the liberty to do so myself:
saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.
socialist blood. the candidate in your article will fade into irrelevancy because there isn’t a mass leftist movement to support radical change like there was back then.
if there was enough of a movement, you can bet you could force trump himself into passing progressive laws. no need for specific candidates to vote for.
I genuinely do agree that we do not have the same party or candidates or support as we did in the 1930s. I genuinely agree that we need systematic change, or any progress we make will only be undone within a century, like last time.
But they didn’t have that party, those candidates, or that support in the 1920s. The Great Depression changed everything.
Violence alone did not make it happen. And lol no, the current Republican Party would absolutely let the United States collapse into civil war before they passed anything like the New Deal. You know, like… the, American Civil War.
Referring to progressive movements in the 1930s as “grassroots” doesn’t fucking whitewash anything. Socialists weren’t alone in the 1930s, and socialism didn’t have anywhere close to enough support in the 1920s to get the New Deal passed.
They elected the people who made the difference. It wasn’t “benevolent capitalists” that gave us the New Deal - it was people voting for change. Real change, not the half-assed shit we talk about these days.
I wish we could skip over the terrible economic suffering that pushed Americans in that direction, but it probably will happen all over again.
Your socialist movement is possible. We’re walking into all the conditions required to make it happen. And here you are, claiming that you have no use for the exact type of people you need to see it through.
Anyone trying to overhaul a corrupt system would know that infiltrating it is a highly effective opposition tactic. You’re not speaking for progress, you’re speaking for contrarianism.
Edit - besides, she’s using political donations to feed people. Corrupt systems absolutely have uses for honest individuals, because your potential allies in poverty are starving to death and she is feeding them.
infiltrating capitalism to ‘defeat it from the inside’ is famously ineffective.
This isn’t infiltrating the vague concept of capitalism, it’s infiltrating congress. She’s not trying to climb some corporate ladder here.
What, exactly, has been more effective in the US? Capitalism still isn’t defeated, as far as I can tell.
What the fuck do you want her to do, stop? Go home?
If you want heroes, if you want martyrs, if you want real people with real power and real megaphones, you need to work with the tools you have available. Whatever else you’re doing hasn’t worked any better than what she’s doing. Unions are still operating under the umbrella of capitalism - they sign deals with capitalists all the time. Do you think we should stop unionizing?
yes. infiltrating capitalist institutions famously doesn’t work. we call those entrists.
i don’t care for lone wolf martyrs. be them entrists or shooters or bombers alike. those can be cathartic but this is it.
leftists organizing their own institutions is what historically works, and is a better use of talented people’s time and abilities.
and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.
… HAH. No… just, no. That’s not what centrism is, and that’s NOT the story of how we got the 8 hour workday.
We have (or in some cases had) the 8 hour workday, OSHA, social security, legally protected unions, etc as a result of the New Deal.
What was the New Deal?
Well, an extremely progressive “centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt - ran for President, and won. He took over the Presidency in the depths of the Great Depression, and Democrats attained majority in both chambers of congress.
They gained complete political power largely because Republican policies had sent the United States into an economic nosedive. They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.
Sound familiar?
He - alongside Congress - passed a whole bunch of legislation, created a whole bunch of federal agencies, and forced through massive leaps forward in labor protections and social welfare programs.
That’s why you have the 8 hour workday.
Read a book.
the new deal came about because of socialist pressure. thats also why it ain’t happening again, because there are barely any socialists in the us anymore.
who was supporting grassroots work reform? thats right, the socialists. under the threat of violence. saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.
i literally said nothing about roosevelt or centrism in any of my responses to you. putting words in my mouth.
you are the one who should read a book, preferrably something not whitewashed by the CIA or something, cause holy shit.
You’re absolutely right - the New Deal was possible because:
That is in fact the grassroots support I’m talking about, thanks.
How do you think we had a Congress and a President who were willing to listen to those grassroots movements?
That’s right - Americans elected a whole bunch of people like the candidate in this article.
The one you claimed we “have no use for.”
who are you quoting again?
since you are repeating yourself ill take the liberty to do so myself:
socialist blood. the candidate in your article will fade into irrelevancy because there isn’t a mass leftist movement to support radical change like there was back then.
if there was enough of a movement, you can bet you could force trump himself into passing progressive laws. no need for specific candidates to vote for.
My friend, you’ve gone too deep.
I genuinely do agree that we do not have the same party or candidates or support as we did in the 1930s. I genuinely agree that we need systematic change, or any progress we make will only be undone within a century, like last time.
But they didn’t have that party, those candidates, or that support in the 1920s. The Great Depression changed everything.
Violence alone did not make it happen. And lol no, the current Republican Party would absolutely let the United States collapse into civil war before they passed anything like the New Deal. You know, like… the, American Civil War.
Referring to progressive movements in the 1930s as “grassroots” doesn’t fucking whitewash anything. Socialists weren’t alone in the 1930s, and socialism didn’t have anywhere close to enough support in the 1920s to get the New Deal passed.
They elected the people who made the difference. It wasn’t “benevolent capitalists” that gave us the New Deal - it was people voting for change. Real change, not the half-assed shit we talk about these days.
I wish we could skip over the terrible economic suffering that pushed Americans in that direction, but it probably will happen all over again.
Your socialist movement is possible. We’re walking into all the conditions required to make it happen. And here you are, claiming that you have no use for the exact type of people you need to see it through.