Yeah that’s the thing about authoritarians; they don’t have a problem with the boot, they just want it to be on the other foot. No better. Different axis, but the political compass looks more like a triangle than a square to me.
Oh noooo authoritarians who use that power to build affordable housing and transportation infrastructure, break up monopolies and capitalist machinations which gouge people trying to pay for food and healthcare. No please noooooooo. Let’s keep fighting this because it’s no different from pedophile billionaires destroying the planet. /s
Run a moderate man and win every goddamn time, like we usually do?
Hell, we even managed that one with a black dude…whose named sounded like our mortal enemy…twice. Just had to be somewhat in the middle so as to not scare what’s left of the Boomers and X-wits.
My dude, the Republicans haven’t won an election without cheating since Eisenhower. Literally, not a single one.
You want to run a far left candidate into that propaganda-bubble buzzsaw, have at it. You’ll lose 40 states, both houses of Congress, and what’s left of our civil liberties, but at least you’ll get to feel smug for 6 months.
It’s the shit rolls down principle. The plant manager may have tuned the machine for say panes of glass to be 1mm thinner to stretch out supply and meet demand. This made it more fragile. While in transport the glass breaks, they blame the driver and send him to the gulag instead of the manager. Based on laws and expectations Stalin would have them summarily executed because he would blame the driver as well.
“Ah, finally free from the tyranny of capitalism!” – the tankie says, barely audible over the sounds of a random minority group being mulched in the background
Uhhuh. Capitalism is evil. Wait… Why’s it evil again? Right; because of the suffering and harm it causes, and siphons the power from many into the hands of a few. And the authoritarian “left” is better because… Trains. Or something. But, come to thinks of it… You know, I heard Germany had a pretty decent rail system too. So perhaps that isn’t the bar by which we should measure success as a society.
That’s funny, I had the opposite experience. When Israel started doing it’s genocide, all the liberals on here were defending it, while the tankies were on the right side of history right from the start.
You’ve never seen liberals screaming about voting for Biden or Kamala prior to the election on here? I couldn’t open the website without seeing it. That’s defense of the genocide, lol.
Voting for a candidate because they are better than the other guy is not an enforcement of all their policies, and pretending it is is a psyop for the opposition.
In October of 2023, when Israel started its genocide (and yes, in week 1 we already knew it was a genocide), liberals were falling over themselves defending it. On .world especially. You can go back to the Israel-related threads at the time for yourself. This predates the 2024 US election by a fair amount btw.
When did that happen? The closest was people pointing out, correctly, that if you actually cared about Israel’s actions it was obvious that Trump would be worse. That’s not defending genocide, that’s trying to prevent people from making stupid decisions for noble reasons.
You know the genocide predates the US election by about a year right? People were not talking about Trump. You can go back for yourself, on lemmy.world, in October 2023, liberals were defending Israel’s genocide en masse.
Yeah I didn’t see any of that. I saw people speaking up for Palestine. I can’t say with certainly that it never happened, but it definitely wasn’t “en masse”.
I’m telling you what I saw, and I was extremely active. I saw no significant defense of the Biden/Harris administration on Gaza except when it came to the election, and again only to point out that Trump would be objectively worse.
I’m sorry, the invasion of Ukraine is a terrible thing, and definitely illegal, but it is not a genocide. Not a single human rights organization or anything like the ICJ, UN, ICC is calling it a genocide.
Youre right I don’t think it’s correct at all to call it a genocide. I think they’re just hypersensitive to the minimizing language tankies use a lot, where a lot of historians said “the uyghur genocide” and tankies say “uhm technically there was no mention of genocide from this international rights body so that’s an overreaction.” The implication being that sure it’s not good what’s happening to them, but it’s not THAT bad.
Tankies do a similar thing with Ukraine where they say “they’re just taking back some of the land they rightfully control,” or some other minimization.
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
Killing members of the group;
Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Russia is currently not in the position to carry out a genocide, unlike Israel, so technically that can be correct. However, not everything is in the actions, something is in the intent as well (trying to commit a crime and failing can still be illegal and punishable), and Russia has made its heinous plans quite clear.
That is absolutely correct. Genocide, however, is not one of those things. A significant portion of the definition of genocide consists of actions. So when you say someone is committing a genocide, you’re saying they’re doing some specific stuff with some very specific intentions. One of the two is not enough. You need both.
The ICJ is hearing counterclaims that Ukraine is committing genocide. So by your standards, Ukraine is committing genocide too. That doesn’t hold up to my standards, so I don’t believe Ukraine is committing genocide (or Russia for that matter).
Ok I guess we have slightly different standards for calling things a genocide then. What did your eyes see that makes you call Russia’s illegal invasion a genocide? What is your personal definition of genocide?
Tankies are the ideological opposite but intellectual equivalent of libertarians, and it says a lot about society that anyone subscribes to either after high school.
USA libertarians, correct? Because I constitute as libertarian in not wanting many if any rulers above the common people. Just that I’m also left and don’t have a weird fascination with changing age of consent laws like right wing libertarians do.
That’s what I mean, not the commonly viewed now Libertarian party in the USA. Freedoms and the only thing government should do is ensure those freedoms from bad actors until we no longer need such.
The last time we had a legitimate primary was six years ago because liberals let Biden campaign long enough to prevent a legitimate primary in 2024. Because liberals prefer MAGA over leftists.
Yeah it was totally that and not because Biden, as former VP for a popular President, got credibility across the political spectrum as a safe choice after four years of President TMZ and All Those Rapes.
centrists get stuff done, right? Like that genocide they funded under Bidens term. Be proud!
They also did a bang up job holding trump accountable for his insurrection and destroying republicans with the Epsten files. Remember that? so much winning. So much gotten done.
And then you go claim leftists get nothing done. What a frickin joke.
That would mean Joe Biden won without them in the 2020 general election. Is that actually what you believe? Because that would mean yet another political bloc abandoned the Democratic candidate in the 2024 general election.
When a political party is bleeding voters like this it’s a problem with the party. If you support the party digging in their heels while this is happening you are part of the problem.
Useless to whom? Trump won his first term in part due to online sowing of voting apathy in those likely to be left of center as we saw in the Cambridge Analytica scandal. The online left will also push Kremlin talking points. If you’re MAGA or Putin, the online left is very useful.
It doesn’t. It just shows you’re unreasonable and incapable of understanding context or nuance. In other words, you’re either literally 15 or you’re mentally 15.
Give me a break. You know exactly where I’m going with this and so you cut it off and call me a teenager? Have a bit of self respect and admit I’m about to prove my point.
Yeah this has definitely happened to me a few times
Lemmy has proven to me that tankies have more in common with right wingers than liberals.
Yeah that’s the thing about authoritarians; they don’t have a problem with the boot, they just want it to be on the other foot. No better. Different axis, but the political compass looks more like a triangle than a square to me.
Ehh… Slightly better
Oh noooo authoritarians who use that power to build affordable housing and transportation infrastructure, break up monopolies and capitalist machinations which gouge people trying to pay for food and healthcare. No please noooooooo. Let’s keep fighting this because it’s no different from pedophile billionaires destroying the planet. /s
Uh-oh we’ve summoned them
White guy in a suit, how fitting, lol.
Thanks for proving their point too.
It’s us or MAGA. Time to make a choice.
Well that’s the falsest dichotomy I’ve seen in awhile.
That would mean you have a plan on how to win general elections without us.
Run a moderate man and win every goddamn time, like we usually do?
Hell, we even managed that one with a black dude…whose named sounded like our mortal enemy…twice. Just had to be somewhat in the middle so as to not scare what’s left of the Boomers and X-wits.
My dude, the Republicans haven’t won an election without cheating since Eisenhower. Literally, not a single one.
You want to run a far left candidate into that propaganda-bubble buzzsaw, have at it. You’ll lose 40 states, both houses of Congress, and what’s left of our civil liberties, but at least you’ll get to feel smug for 6 months.
Have Marxist lenninists ever come to power through elections?
France? That once province in India? Genuine genuine question.
Who’s both siding now?
Yeah, they’re so much better for the working man. And they’re doing so well at exporting their culture.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/byd-hungary-china-labour-watch-9.7154249
Ah yes, Hungary, the leftist capital of China, lmao.
The authoritarians don’t do that, we do. You think Stalin was out there laying track?
He was calling for the deaths of the delivery driver whose load broke because of poor manufacturing quality.
What?
It’s the shit rolls down principle. The plant manager may have tuned the machine for say panes of glass to be 1mm thinner to stretch out supply and meet demand. This made it more fragile. While in transport the glass breaks, they blame the driver and send him to the gulag instead of the manager. Based on laws and expectations Stalin would have them summarily executed because he would blame the driver as well.
I have no idea how that concept relates to the present discussion. Sounds like really shit management yeah.
“Ah, finally free from the tyranny of capitalism!” – the tankie says, barely audible over the sounds of a random minority group being mulched in the background
Uhhuh. Capitalism is evil. Wait… Why’s it evil again? Right; because of the suffering and harm it causes, and siphons the power from many into the hands of a few. And the authoritarian “left” is better because… Trains. Or something. But, come to thinks of it… You know, I heard Germany had a pretty decent rail system too. So perhaps that isn’t the bar by which we should measure success as a society.
I didn’t even say get rid of capitalism. I said “break up monopolies and capitalist machinations”.
That’s funny, I had the opposite experience. When Israel started doing it’s genocide, all the liberals on here were defending it, while the tankies were on the right side of history right from the start.
Where? Is there one example? I never saw one.
I saw a bunch of people hoping trump won over it though. Which made less than no sense.
You’ve never seen liberals screaming about voting for Biden or Kamala prior to the election on here? I couldn’t open the website without seeing it. That’s defense of the genocide, lol.
Voting for a candidate because they are better than the other guy is not an enforcement of all their policies, and pretending it is is a psyop for the opposition.
No, it’s voters accepting garbage politicians and policies.
How do you propose voters not accept them?
You… Don’t vote for them. Are all Americans this fucking braindead, lol?
In October of 2023, when Israel started its genocide (and yes, in week 1 we already knew it was a genocide), liberals were falling over themselves defending it. On .world especially. You can go back to the Israel-related threads at the time for yourself. This predates the 2024 US election by a fair amount btw.
When did that happen? The closest was people pointing out, correctly, that if you actually cared about Israel’s actions it was obvious that Trump would be worse. That’s not defending genocide, that’s trying to prevent people from making stupid decisions for noble reasons.
You know the genocide predates the US election by about a year right? People were not talking about Trump. You can go back for yourself, on lemmy.world, in October 2023, liberals were defending Israel’s genocide en masse.
Yeah I didn’t see any of that. I saw people speaking up for Palestine. I can’t say with certainly that it never happened, but it definitely wasn’t “en masse”.
Oh wow, we’re already in the “one day, everyone will always have been against this” era. Great. Liberal amnesia is a hell of a drug.
I’m telling you what I saw, and I was extremely active. I saw no significant defense of the Biden/Harris administration on Gaza except when it came to the election, and again only to point out that Trump would be objectively worse.
When Russia started their genocide in Ukraine those same tankies cheered it though.
I’m sorry, the invasion of Ukraine is a terrible thing, and definitely illegal, but it is not a genocide. Not a single human rights organization or anything like the ICJ, UN, ICC is calling it a genocide.
Youre right I don’t think it’s correct at all to call it a genocide. I think they’re just hypersensitive to the minimizing language tankies use a lot, where a lot of historians said “the uyghur genocide” and tankies say “uhm technically there was no mention of genocide from this international rights body so that’s an overreaction.” The implication being that sure it’s not good what’s happening to them, but it’s not THAT bad.
Tankies do a similar thing with Ukraine where they say “they’re just taking back some of the land they rightfully control,” or some other minimization.
No when you kidnap children, strip them of their citizenship and forcibly adopt them out that’s genocide.
Technically that’s ethnic cleansing.
Article II
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
https://www.un.org/en/genocide-prevention/definition
Russia is currently not in the position to carry out a genocide, unlike Israel, so technically that can be correct. However, not everything is in the actions, something is in the intent as well (trying to commit a crime and failing can still be illegal and punishable), and Russia has made its heinous plans quite clear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_Russia_Should_Do_with_Ukraine
That is absolutely correct. Genocide, however, is not one of those things. A significant portion of the definition of genocide consists of actions. So when you say someone is committing a genocide, you’re saying they’re doing some specific stuff with some very specific intentions. One of the two is not enough. You need both.
That’s true. Shooting someone but missing is murderous, but not a murder, and trying to commit a genocide is genocidal but not a genocide.
Thank you for proving my point.
Ukraine is a genocide. ICJ is trying a case about that very fact.
https://www.ejiltalk.org/another-setback-for-ukraine-the-icj-declares-russias-counter-claims-in-the-ukraine-v-russia-genocide-case-admissible/
The ICJ is hearing counterclaims that Ukraine is committing genocide. So by your standards, Ukraine is committing genocide too. That doesn’t hold up to my standards, so I don’t believe Ukraine is committing genocide (or Russia for that matter).
I only brought up the ICJ because you mentioned it but I don’t need anything besides my eyes to see the truth of the genocide that’s happening.
Ok I guess we have slightly different standards for calling things a genocide then. What did your eyes see that makes you call Russia’s illegal invasion a genocide? What is your personal definition of genocide?
Tankies are the ideological opposite but intellectual equivalent of libertarians, and it says a lot about society that anyone subscribes to either after high school.
USA libertarians, correct? Because I constitute as libertarian in not wanting many if any rulers above the common people. Just that I’m also left and don’t have a weird fascination with changing age of consent laws like right wing libertarians do.
Early twentieth century anarchists often described themselves as libertarians. If that’s what you mean, we can work together.
US libertarians believe in a state that enforces private property laws but does nothing for the general welfare, basically gangsterism.
That’s what I mean, not the commonly viewed now Libertarian party in the USA. Freedoms and the only thing government should do is ensure those freedoms from bad actors until we no longer need such.
That means you’re definitely not as smart as you think you are!
Funny, Reddit has proven to me liberals prefer MAGA over leftists.
I’d ask you for an example but we both know you wouldn’t be able to provide one.
A vote for Joe Biden in the 2020 primaries wasn’t a vote against Trump it was a vote against leftists and a dice roll against Trump.
Thanks for proving my point.
Thanks for proving mine.
You went back six years to try to prove your point.
The last time we had a legitimate primary was six years ago because liberals let Biden campaign long enough to prevent a legitimate primary in 2024. Because liberals prefer MAGA over leftists.
Yeah it was totally that and not because Biden, as former VP for a popular President, got credibility across the political spectrum as a safe choice after four years of President TMZ and All Those Rapes.
And also because leftists are a useless political bloc.
Oh ho! Now you’ve done it! They’re totally double extra not gonna vote for your candidate now!
They weren’t anyway but now . . . You just pissed off the least powerful non-voters in the electorate! Liberal!
That would mean Joe Biden won the 2020 general election without them.
centrists get stuff done, right? Like that genocide they funded under Bidens term. Be proud!
They also did a bang up job holding trump accountable for his insurrection and destroying republicans with the Epsten files. Remember that? so much winning. So much gotten done.
And then you go claim leftists get nothing done. What a frickin joke.
When was the last leftist president in office?
That would mean Joe Biden won without them in the 2020 general election. Is that actually what you believe? Because that would mean yet another political bloc abandoned the Democratic candidate in the 2024 general election.
When a political party is bleeding voters like this it’s a problem with the party. If you support the party digging in their heels while this is happening you are part of the problem.
Useless to whom? Trump won his first term in part due to online sowing of voting apathy in those likely to be left of center as we saw in the Cambridge Analytica scandal. The online left will also push Kremlin talking points. If you’re MAGA or Putin, the online left is very useful.
I wonder what the overlap between them and green voters are.
You’re almost there. What made Joe Biden the “safe choice”?
Because he likes vanilla ice cream. You really can’t go wrong with vanilla.
What’s crazy is you think this makes you clever.
It doesn’t. It just shows you’re unreasonable and incapable of understanding context or nuance. In other words, you’re either literally 15 or you’re mentally 15.
Give me a break. You know exactly where I’m going with this and so you cut it off and call me a teenager? Have a bit of self respect and admit I’m about to prove my point.
Americans think wanting gun control and wanting all minorities dead imprisoned or deported are equally bad.