you think the democrats are better because you only care when you are on the receiving end of what your country does to the global south countries every decade since after WW2. You literally do not care about people outside your own country as you don’t consider them humans and would gladly have them die for your own comfort and treats.
Youre depicting Democrats as angels despite all the horrible shit they do. So it is completely reasonable to conclude what they concluded about your position. Thats not what a strawman is, a strawman isn’t just “when you adress the logical conclusions to the other persons statement”.
If youre going to make an attempt at pseudo-intellectual dismissals of other people, at least learn how the fallacy you’re referring to functions.
You dont care about people outside of the US. You are a nationalist. Your only fear with regards to politics is experiencing the pain your regime brings upon other countries every day. All of these statements are reasonable assertions based on what you had written so far.
My meme doesn’t specify the angel box is democrats. The point is that people who assume voting does not matter are contributing to the worse outcome happening, which is true. I do have the personal belief that democrats are meaningfully better than republicans on domestic and foreign policy, but no, I do not think they are angels. I think my responses have made that clear and so taking the meme literally over the opinions I have explicitly expressed and argued for is incorrect.
And yes, their argument is a strawman. They wanted to feel good about disagreeing with someone who unpersons foreigners and does not care about people outside of their country, so they decided that’s who I was. This completely ignores very reasonable explanations such as “it’s possible to care about more than one thing at once”. The point of calling their argument a strawman is to express that no, they are not describing my position accurately.
And neither are you. I care about people outside the US. Would it be valid to say you don’t care about people inside the US because you are telling us not to improve our domestic policies? I support the ICC and other extranational oversight measures. Obviously I care about the wellbeing of the US a lot (I live here) but my decisions don’t fail to take the health of other nations into account, so no, I am not a nationalist. Claiming things like “you don’t consider [people outside your own country] humans” is patently ridiculous (honestly it’s straight up libel) when I have not expressed those views. It’s a strawman because they are responding not to what was said, but to what they falsely imagine my beliefs to be.
My meme doesn’t specify the angel box is democrats.
So the way conversation works is that responses like yours come after statements made by someone else and the responses are made in and viewed in the context of the wider conversation. So when the meme is about Democrats and republicans and you then give it your own little spin with a similar binary, people rightfully conclude you’re saying Democrats are angels. I can empathise that this might be tough when youre a horrible person, like you, who doesn’t get a lot of chances for proper social interaction, so I get you might struggle with the concept. Youre welcome for explaining it to you.
Now, something else people do, is look at what else you are saying and they also use that to understand what you’re trying to illustrate thru an artistic medium. From your other statements it is clear you consider them angels. Which means youre a fascist genocidal cop-loving racist homophobe - even if you say you aren’t - because your actions are ones of running defence for fascist genocidal cop-loving racist homophobes. You know like when your bullies grab your arms and make you punch yourself and they ask you “why are you punching yourself?” youre not really punching yourself - they are, even though they say something different, it is what they are doing that matters.
I do have the personal belief that democrats are meaningfully better than republicans on domestic and foreign policy
Sweet, I believe dragons are real but that doesn’t make it so either. In reality dragons dont exist, there is no queen of England and the democrats are as bad domestivally and with foreign policy.
I care about people outside the US.
No, you just say you do. You do not give a fuck about foreigners if you vote for genociders. Especially not when you depict them as angels compared to republicans.
The rest of your screed is just you retreading things that have already been refuted and saying things that are answered by READING THE LINKED TEXT. At this point its clear you’re just trolling, since you dont actually want to discuss things - You dont engage with the text given to you, you ignore what people write, you hide behind misused rhetorics, you fail to engage arguments presented. I am not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, I find trolling like what youre attempting to be sad and tiresome. If you just want to troll just post goatse or some lazy one-liner, that way we can all know to dismiss you immediately.
Surely you can think of a better way to affect meaningful change than sitting in a basement accusing random people online of being fascists. You do realize this is detrimental to your cause?
Then again, maybe you don’t… yeah, probably not. What a waste.
Youre also doing the same, dumbass. You dont think you could be more effective if you went outside instead of sitting here arguing with people who quote clearly will not vote democrat?
Probably not, your people skills suck as does your communication. You’d probably just alienate potential voters.
The person I’m arguing against doesn’t live in the US. I’m arguing that they should stop telling us to make our lives worse by not voting. The viable options are harm reduction (vote democrat) or systemic reform (vote third party). Not voting is never the correct choice.
You would make your life better by not voting democrat or republican. They are pointing out your fucked up argument is “sure genocide and all, but what about meeeee”
Democratic Party is not harm reduction, read the link.
Except you lot don’t believe this since so many of BlueMAGA tell everyone that voting third party is useless and you might as well not vote at all if you’re gonna do that.
You have them nothing else to respond to. If you want answers of substance then bring something substantial to the table. Otherwise people will just reciprocate your lazy comments with low effort dunks.
They’re the same. They both fuck over minorities, they both increase deportations, they are both warmongers, they both do genocide, they both fuck over the climate, they both fuck over women, they both fuck over queer people, they are both parties full of geriatric genocidal fascist pedophiles.
“Think” might be a strong word if you believe they are equal. If you truly think they are equally bad, why do you continually describe the Democrats as being bad because they allow the Republicans to do bad things? Surely there would be no need to use them as a proxy if both parties are doing equally bad things on their own? You know deep down that the Democrats are a passive evil rather than an active one, don’t pretend you believe they are identical.
Not going to bother responding to this well, but if you want to know my understanding of the situation:
They’re the same.
No
They both fuck over minorities, […] they both fuck over women, they both fuck over queer people,
Tends to be Republicans by a fairly wide margin
they both increase deportations,
See my previous comments in this thread, this is true but I do not believe deportations under Biden have caused as much harm as the ones under Trump.
they are both warmongers,
Again, true but tends to favor Republicans. Obama got the Iran conflict under control until Trump blew it up again, for example.
they both do genocide,
True
they both fuck over the climate,
True, but favors Republicans especially with the complete gutting of the EPA recently.
they are both parties full of geriatric
Yes, in fact the average age is basically identical
genocidal
Yes, although detractors tend to be Democrats as it’s the best party for them
fascist
Same as above, nonfascists always choose the Democratic party. I wonder why?
pedophiles.
HEAVILY favors Republicans.
Conclusion: Democrats are a better choice than republicans, and claiming they are the same is illogical.
Read the link, you’re saying absolutely nothing that hasnt been addressed.
why do you continually describe the Democrats as being bad because they allow the Republicans to do bad things?
When they’re not already doing it themselves it is because the republicans are already doing it for them. Like the crime bill.
If it werent in their interests then they would roll it back or oppose it.
The rest, and really this point too, has already been adressed by the link. Im not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, so I won’t waste more time giving rebuttals to something that is already refuted by the linking of another comment. If you actually want to discuss these things, then do it with the modicum of civility it requires to actually engage with the other. Otherwise you’re just trolling.
LMFAO this is literally the same from an outside perspective. You BLUEmaga people really do only care about decorum and domestic issues in politics. You even admit that Biden wasn’t good. It’s all “lesser evil” for you. And guess what, evil is still evil you fucking idiot.
I care about decorum insofar as I think in personal discussions calling someone a fucking idiot is not useful to understanding or changing their views. In politics I don’t really care about decorum? Why do you think I would?
As for domestic issues: Yeah I care about them, I fucking live here. If both practical options have the same outcome outside the nation but vastly different ones inside, why wouldn’t I vote for the party that’s going to improve one of them? It’s not like the democrats are worse than the republicans internationally.
As long as there are two choices in this system I will always choose the better choice. Not doing so is completely illogical. If you want a choice that’s not evil you have to work to change the system entirely. If you were planning on doing that, why not also make things less bad when you can?
That’s literally the point, you will legitimize a system if it serves you. You do not consider how your rationale and accepting this harms farm more people. Billions vs. a few million within the Imperial Core.
Just so you know, marginalized groups in your own country do not fare any better under a democrat. They are still all the time under threat of ICE, they were so under Biden but you lot just did not give a single fucking shit about it because liberals lack object permanence.
ah yes the democrats are just angels
As opposed to them doing the exact same thing as the republicans as depicted in the OP? We’re both exaggerating for effect
“Genocidal monsters are figuratively angles!”
Obtuse
you think the democrats are better because you only care when you are on the receiving end of what your country does to the global south countries every decade since after WW2. You literally do not care about people outside your own country as you don’t consider them humans and would gladly have them die for your own comfort and treats.
Did it feel good to attack that strawman you made up? Let me know when you’re ready for an actual discussion.
Youre depicting Democrats as angels despite all the horrible shit they do. So it is completely reasonable to conclude what they concluded about your position. Thats not what a strawman is, a strawman isn’t just “when you adress the logical conclusions to the other persons statement”.
If youre going to make an attempt at pseudo-intellectual dismissals of other people, at least learn how the fallacy you’re referring to functions.
You dont care about people outside of the US. You are a nationalist. Your only fear with regards to politics is experiencing the pain your regime brings upon other countries every day. All of these statements are reasonable assertions based on what you had written so far.
My meme doesn’t specify the angel box is democrats. The point is that people who assume voting does not matter are contributing to the worse outcome happening, which is true. I do have the personal belief that democrats are meaningfully better than republicans on domestic and foreign policy, but no, I do not think they are angels. I think my responses have made that clear and so taking the meme literally over the opinions I have explicitly expressed and argued for is incorrect.
And yes, their argument is a strawman. They wanted to feel good about disagreeing with someone who unpersons foreigners and does not care about people outside of their country, so they decided that’s who I was. This completely ignores very reasonable explanations such as “it’s possible to care about more than one thing at once”. The point of calling their argument a strawman is to express that no, they are not describing my position accurately.
And neither are you. I care about people outside the US. Would it be valid to say you don’t care about people inside the US because you are telling us not to improve our domestic policies? I support the ICC and other extranational oversight measures. Obviously I care about the wellbeing of the US a lot (I live here) but my decisions don’t fail to take the health of other nations into account, so no, I am not a nationalist. Claiming things like “you don’t consider [people outside your own country] humans” is patently ridiculous (honestly it’s straight up libel) when I have not expressed those views. It’s a strawman because they are responding not to what was said, but to what they falsely imagine my beliefs to be.
So the way conversation works is that responses like yours come after statements made by someone else and the responses are made in and viewed in the context of the wider conversation. So when the meme is about Democrats and republicans and you then give it your own little spin with a similar binary, people rightfully conclude you’re saying Democrats are angels. I can empathise that this might be tough when youre a horrible person, like you, who doesn’t get a lot of chances for proper social interaction, so I get you might struggle with the concept. Youre welcome for explaining it to you.
Now, something else people do, is look at what else you are saying and they also use that to understand what you’re trying to illustrate thru an artistic medium. From your other statements it is clear you consider them angels. Which means youre a fascist genocidal cop-loving racist homophobe - even if you say you aren’t - because your actions are ones of running defence for fascist genocidal cop-loving racist homophobes. You know like when your bullies grab your arms and make you punch yourself and they ask you “why are you punching yourself?” youre not really punching yourself - they are, even though they say something different, it is what they are doing that matters.
Sweet, I believe dragons are real but that doesn’t make it so either. In reality dragons dont exist, there is no queen of England and the democrats are as bad domestivally and with foreign policy.
No, you just say you do. You do not give a fuck about foreigners if you vote for genociders. Especially not when you depict them as angels compared to republicans.
The rest of your screed is just you retreading things that have already been refuted and saying things that are answered by READING THE LINKED TEXT. At this point its clear you’re just trolling, since you dont actually want to discuss things - You dont engage with the text given to you, you ignore what people write, you hide behind misused rhetorics, you fail to engage arguments presented. I am not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, I find trolling like what youre attempting to be sad and tiresome. If you just want to troll just post goatse or some lazy one-liner, that way we can all know to dismiss you immediately.
Ah the classic “I’m not touching you!” Defense
go back to reddit, fash
Surely you can think of a better way to affect meaningful change than sitting in a basement accusing random people online of being fascists. You do realize this is detrimental to your cause?
Then again, maybe you don’t… yeah, probably not. What a waste.
Youre also doing the same, dumbass. You dont think you could be more effective if you went outside instead of sitting here arguing with people who quote clearly will not vote democrat?
Probably not, your people skills suck as does your communication. You’d probably just alienate potential voters.
The person I’m arguing against doesn’t live in the US. I’m arguing that they should stop telling us to make our lives worse by not voting. The viable options are harm reduction (vote democrat) or systemic reform (vote third party). Not voting is never the correct choice.
You would make your life better by not voting democrat or republican. They are pointing out your fucked up argument is “sure genocide and all, but what about meeeee”
Democratic Party is not harm reduction, read the link.
Except you lot don’t believe this since so many of BlueMAGA tell everyone that voting third party is useless and you might as well not vote at all if you’re gonna do that.
What cause? Like getting people who are legitimizing a system that enables, defends and protects genocide into communism?
Wow you really got me with that one lmfao
You have them nothing else to respond to. If you want answers of substance then bring something substantial to the table. Otherwise people will just reciprocate your lazy comments with low effort dunks.
No the democrats are doing the exact same, thats not an exaggeration. They are both committing a genocide.
You are free to believe they are equivalent in spite of the many, many differences. I’m not having this argument again.
Oh wow thank you for allowing me to think things! I have also had this discussion before
They’re the same. They both fuck over minorities, they both increase deportations, they are both warmongers, they both do genocide, they both fuck over the climate, they both fuck over women, they both fuck over queer people, they are both parties full of geriatric genocidal fascist pedophiles.
“Think” might be a strong word if you believe they are equal. If you truly think they are equally bad, why do you continually describe the Democrats as being bad because they allow the Republicans to do bad things? Surely there would be no need to use them as a proxy if both parties are doing equally bad things on their own? You know deep down that the Democrats are a passive evil rather than an active one, don’t pretend you believe they are identical.
Not going to bother responding to this well, but if you want to know my understanding of the situation:
No
Tends to be Republicans by a fairly wide margin
See my previous comments in this thread, this is true but I do not believe deportations under Biden have caused as much harm as the ones under Trump.
Again, true but tends to favor Republicans. Obama got the Iran conflict under control until Trump blew it up again, for example.
True
True, but favors Republicans especially with the complete gutting of the EPA recently.
Yes, in fact the average age is basically identical
Yes, although detractors tend to be Democrats as it’s the best party for them
Same as above, nonfascists always choose the Democratic party. I wonder why?
HEAVILY favors Republicans.
Conclusion: Democrats are a better choice than republicans, and claiming they are the same is illogical.
Wowww so uncivil!
Read the link, you’re saying absolutely nothing that hasnt been addressed.
When they’re not already doing it themselves it is because the republicans are already doing it for them. Like the crime bill.
If it werent in their interests then they would roll it back or oppose it.
The rest, and really this point too, has already been adressed by the link. Im not interested in arguing for the sake of arguing, so I won’t waste more time giving rebuttals to something that is already refuted by the linking of another comment. If you actually want to discuss these things, then do it with the modicum of civility it requires to actually engage with the other. Otherwise you’re just trolling.
so many differences? give a few examples
Ok
You know this thread makes you look like an uninformed moron, right?
LMFAO this is literally the same from an outside perspective. You BLUEmaga people really do only care about decorum and domestic issues in politics. You even admit that Biden wasn’t good. It’s all “lesser evil” for you. And guess what, evil is still evil you fucking idiot.
I care about decorum insofar as I think in personal discussions calling someone a fucking idiot is not useful to understanding or changing their views. In politics I don’t really care about decorum? Why do you think I would?
As for domestic issues: Yeah I care about them, I fucking live here. If both practical options have the same outcome outside the nation but vastly different ones inside, why wouldn’t I vote for the party that’s going to improve one of them? It’s not like the democrats are worse than the republicans internationally.
As long as there are two choices in this system I will always choose the better choice. Not doing so is completely illogical. If you want a choice that’s not evil you have to work to change the system entirely. If you were planning on doing that, why not also make things less bad when you can?
That’s literally the point, you will legitimize a system if it serves you. You do not consider how your rationale and accepting this harms farm more people. Billions vs. a few million within the Imperial Core.
Just so you know, marginalized groups in your own country do not fare any better under a democrat. They are still all the time under threat of ICE, they were so under Biden but you lot just did not give a single fucking shit about it because liberals lack object permanence.