- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
- cross-posted to:
- pcgaming@lemmy.ca
You must log in or # to comment.
It shouldn’t be up to discord or any other internet entity to verify the age of its users.
Parents. Parents should be monitoring their child’s Internet usage.
Say it one more time for the dumbasses in the back row!
I’ve been using Fluxer and self hosting Fluxcord to sync my discord server with Fluxer, it’s going great.
The same day I saw Discord’s age verifying message, I uninstalled the app and moved to Matrix (to be fair, I was already on Matrix)
Anyone looking for a lightweight self hosted alternative to discord might want to check out sharkord. Its less about large communities and more about a private space to chat with friends, that you have complete privacy and control with.
I’ve finally gotten off my ass and set up matrix and jabber to pilot with my friend and family. I’ve threatened everyone with IRC, but I really wouldn’t mind going back to hosting IRC servers…
Those people might be unhappy, but most of them will still refuse to move from the platform.
I’m not moving because there’s too many people I regularly talk to on it
Yep, I opted for different alternatives like Stoat or matrix but without results. Only one friends switched to Stoat.
because if most people aren’t significantly inconvenienced they won’t join a different platform, and if there aren’t your friends on a different platform it’s really hard to leave.
deleted by creator
Shout out to Fluxer.
Still don’t think its quite ready but its chugging along and its been fun following the progress. I know they have some big updates inbound. Hopefully people actually give it a shot and flip over to Fluxer.
I’d also add that the “Proton” subscrition equivalent - “Plutonium”, is a better value proposition. But I will admit, they still need to clear a few hurdles before even I feel completely comfortable ditching Discord.
But its Open Source and it has a self-hosting option, along with the Quality of Life you expect from Discord in terms of the app layout, screen sharing, etc.
Open source is the way. It always amuses me when people move from one proprietary system to a different one, since the new one always ends up having the same issues.
That’s because privatized companies spend money to promote their products while open source largely grows through word of mouth. The average person doesn’t know about the issues of proprietary software nor the existence of an open source alternative, they just use whatever everyone else uses and everyone else ends up using whatever gets successfully marketed.
The new one usually won’t have the same issues at first, but they’ll have the same opportunities and motivations that lead to the issues. People will see a different provider and say they’re not doing the bad things, and they’ll be correct for a few years maybe, but then it becomes a struggle to get them to switch to the next thing. This whole problem would mostly be solved with open-source alternatives instead.
No.
What’s this supposed to mean? I’ve done similar things when restructuring my code. Git tries it’s best to keep track of files changing directories but sometimes you just go fuck it and abandon the history because Git is being a git.
I’d be more concerned about consistent 10k+ changes per day or something
10 million LOC addition in one month is not a red flag to you?
Not when it’s a fucking private to public merge. Why the fuck would a tiny public repo that was basically a elevator pitch in code base form send up red flags when you merge in the actual product that includes the better part of half a year worth of development from a team of people?
Are you allergic to context and critical thinking? Or do you enjoy just being paranoid?
Meh. I’ve seen (and done) worse, honestly. Again would be more concerning if they kept it up
… What?
I’m incredibly productive, and have had the joy of working on productive teams. And unless they are working with hundreds of full time, high performing, engineers. You ain’t changing 10 million lines in a month.
With AI, it’s technically possible, but I can only imagine the slop. It’s likely incomprehensible at this point.
Just speaking from personal experience. Here’s a story.
One time I did a massive refactor, basically touching every function in the software. For background, this was a massive enterprise application. The backend was about 10 million lines of code, the front end was… probably triple that, I didn’t bother counting. Yes, building the code took more than an hour, even on extremely beefy machines.
The reason for this refactor was there was a huge amount of tech debt that finally caught up to us. You know, putting it off for years, using deprecated functions and old methods, feature flags, even forking software and modifying it to be compatible. Just years of finding creative solutions, until finally things said “enough” and there was no more bandaids. I was given the green light to fix up everything at once. Programmer’s wet dream, at least for me; I was so happy.
Anyway, in this project, we did rebase not merge. So, after 3 months of working diligently in a branch; I had to rebase the whole fucking thing because my coworkers obviously weren’t idle that whole time. This part I didn’t enjoy so much.
It took 2 weeks to rebase all the merge conflicts. It took so long, I had to rebase again. Multiple times. Each rebase getting closer and closer to being able to finally merge into master.
Finally I did it. I told everyone else to just relax and take the day off, while I merge into master and fix all the problems. There was many problems of course. But the final commit was tens of millions of lines of code changed, all by myself. This was before LLMs. But I have the type of brain that can sit there for 9 hours straight every day and tidy up code and enjoy it.
Edit: just to clarify, “rebase” makes it look like all those changes happened at once instead of spread out over months, and would make a huge spike like that. Also just because LLM wasn’t a thing didn’t mean I did it all manually… I heavily used find-and-replace, upgrade scripts, codemod, and many other automation tools. I think I even wrote a few manual codemod scripts to get it done.
Yeah, there are some occasions that justifies tones of lines of code.
Or ex tech leave has bitbucket going “nope” with a PR that was too big
Holy fuck!
hmm I thought they leaned relatively against AI slop. Wouldn’t this be because they were working on it privately or something for quite some time?
It’s 11 million lines of fucking code. 11 MILLION LINES.
This commit was the refactor commit from the private dev flow to the open source repo. The process basically added a lot of files and deleted a bunch as well. it was long overdue but I wouldn’t expect constant 11m line code changes
It’s obviously some kind of code reorganization, restructuring or reformating, don’t be paranoid
A refactoring would have a relatively similar number of subtractions as additions. This is almost entirely additions. This is not just refactoring.
Not necessarily. Huge additions without matching deletions often happen during restructurings like vendorizing dependencies, importing external packages, generating bindings, or migrating private repos into a monorepo. In these cases new code canbbe introduced to repository and there will be no corresponding deletions in commit history.
I’ve did similar restructurings myself, eg. Making automatically generated resources static
Yeah, some projects also ditch external dependencies to make their own
Shout out to Matrix, which is federated, self hostable, open source, and supports end to end encryption.
Matrix is a bit of a shit show and also isn’t a discord alternative to begin with.
Matrix is a Discord alternative, but not a Discord clone
Matrix is a bit of a shit show
How so?
and also isn’t a discord alternative to begin with
It absolutely is. A “Space” is the equivalent to a Discord “server”. It’s not perfect and polished, but it does the job. I’ve been using it rather than Discord with my gaming group for a year now.
I’ve been using Matrix for over a decade now. How is it a shitshow?
I wouldn’t call it a shit show, they were first in E2E encrypted collaborative messaging platforms and get all the hits. Moderation turned out to be incompatible with E2E encryption. People kicked out of channels can still decrypt because keys revocation hasn’t been made.
Matrix server is a resource hog and a mess, and the protocol has never took off to spark alternative implementations.
Encryption doesn’t scale well for big channels.
They got many things right, but got crippled by many things they couldn’t possibly predict.
I had never used Matrix outside direct messaging so I was unaware of the lack of key revocation.
The entire concept of it is a shit show. It’s the prime example of anti user design.
It’s a functional system, with the entire concept of user friendly design and non power user being ignored.
It’s made by power users and engineers for power users and engineers. It’s fantastic for what it is.
I’ve been eyeing Fluxer for quite a while now. Once they roll out the update where they want to overhaul and streamline the selfhosting part, my friends and I are going to switch
It’s a slop project.
Is this substantiated?
At this point for many projects it’s now depressingly, a matter of degree.
It’s not, people are objectively being retarded about this. They merged in the actual prod code base from the closed private repo that had the entire small team working on it for months. Into the open source public repo when as the first major refactor and functionally went from preview build to first real public beta.
A few million lines of code from a small team and a number of one of contributors over months of work on a brand new project is perfectly god damn normal.
The repo went from elevator pitch to real product in one go cause the work had been done else where.
Two commits today, presumably after this merge you talk about, +12k, -27k. In one day. You think humans can do that? Yesterday, 22 commits and I opened a random one: +15k, -9k. Just put this supposed human effort into an actual standard like Matrix instead of vibing your own.
Look at the git and tell me. One guy, contributing 1.5m lines of code is not human made. It’s a matter of time before it falls apart and becomes unmaintainable.
Part of me thinks is this just performative nonsense that will always have enormous holes in it, like Prohibition.
Scanning “your” face to prove your age is really just scanning a face.
But I also worry about successive noose tightening.
Nah. They want to be an essential service for games.
Verified users of appropriate age.
Integrated game chat.
Integrated game VoIP.
All appropriate-for-age.Can’t develop your own moderation? Just pay discord.
So many companies will pay massive sums to outsource chat/VoIP/age-verification/moderation to discord.
And discord is already the “goto” gaming community provider.Oh, and shop stuff.
Gift (buy) a friend a cool cosmetic through discord. Already has the community connections. Just needs the reason for games to tightly integrate it (moderation, chat, VoIP, age verification).It is absolutely a positioning move
Part of me agrees and the other part thinks it’s going to go the way of the automobile.
Everyone needs a license, issued from big brother, to use the public service.
Or else!
People using Discord badly are very unlikely to kill random bystanders.
We could go back and forth all day on this, but just watch out for the government trying to claim “you need an ID for this because the anonymous people online can hurt you”.
They’ll find a way to justify it, by some string of twisted logic that makes it equivalent to killing someone in an accident. It’ll probably be about protecting the kids, it’s always about protecting the kids.
Oh well, I think we’re on the same side here. I joined the EFF!
“The government”, because only the US exists and matters…
Ah so europe is under anarchy, that explains so much i never knew that!
Very likely to leak military vehicle and aircraft documents though
But they might see something a Christian might not like, which is worse to some people
The way age verification is being pushed feels more like wanting to setting up checkpoints on the edge of a city versus just checking Id’s before going into a specific establishment.
I just don’t see how this isn’t a national login system trying to masquerade itself in a poorly fitting “think of the children!” sheep’s skin.
Yeah, I know a couple of mods whose servers are in a bit of an uproar.
The “unofficial” Arch Linux discord server is inviting/encouraging their members to move to their Fluxer instance. Hopefully that’s a trend that will start.
Fluxer has been an adequate replacement for Discord for my TTRPG group. Been using it since March and it has gotten better every month.
I have no illusions that they may one day become as shitty, but for now it works. And the fact that it’s open source and self host able gives me some hope.
Just spent 10 minutes fooling around with fluxer via the web ui. Was able to invite a dice bot, but couldn’t get it to respond. (Also it’s very D&D-specific, but that’s a separate complaint)
Looks so much like Discord
Yeah it’s pretty unashamedly a Discord clone.
Since it is opensource and self-hostable, there will always be some non-shitty fork around once it gets popular. At least it is very likely.
Ngl the fact it cannot be found on F-droid is very suss. Beta on mobile is Google Play only…
The mobile app has been their main focus past month or so. It just came to the app store beta literally yesterday, before that you had to download the apk from their github. It’s come a looong way and is extremely usable.
Their website told me how to build it through obtainium so not as sus as it could be
I recommend Stoat, it can be selfhosted, open source, there is no shady company behind it, and it works well. There even is top-notch noise filtering, which I found very important for voice calls.
Stoats bigger problem is that it’s been spinning it’s wheels for years has basically gotten no where and has a fraction of the features people want out of a discord clone.
It’s ok, but it need to actually start taking progressing it’s feature set seriously before anyone will start taking it seriously.
Have they got push-to-talk yet? Very big reason why I stopped using it unfortunately
For some reason still no, sadly.
isnt stoat russian?
So what? It is open source and you can self host it. I don’t think open source software developed by Russian people is worse than open source software developed by Americans.
I have a hard time assigning countries to open source projects since anyone can contribute. No idea whether the core devs are russian. Their online communication and documentation is completely in english and their domains are american.
Do they have voice calls now?
Um, they answered that in the second sentence of their comment.
Yet the entire software community depends on it for everything
I really don’t understand how a chat app for gamers became so big in the software development community. It’s such a poor choice, especially for support. Nothing is indexed in search engines, and people can’t see messages unless they join. I’ve even seen some projects use Discord for bug tracking. It’s woefully inadequate for that.
It’s way better than slack lol that’s how, i mean slack is straight garbage so it’s not saying much
before Discord there was Teamspeak 3, Ventrilo and mIRC. Discord at the time brought file sharing, video calls and more polished UI at the time when all of it was not found on TS, but Skype and facebook messenger was around. Me and my friends used TS, but jumped to Discord because it was better almost in every way (apart from sound codecs). If TS devs had not been so oblivious and inovated fast enough, we would have stayed
My impression—I don’t use it myself and my few experiences touching it have not impressed me—is that the major selling point is that it provided several different forms of communication that gamers wanted to use in a single package. Like, instant messaging, VoIP, video calls, chat, etc.
You could set up all of these individually, but this was free and all-in-one, is managed, and it didn’t require much technical expertise to use. Any user with an account has access to all the components.
And it didn’t cost anything to set up.
If I were going to set up, say, a VoIP server, I’d probably use, oh, Mumble. I’d get my own VPS for it, which would cost something. I’d only have VoIP at the end of that. If I wanted to use say, text-based communication or have some mechanism for sharing files, I’d have to go cobble something together from other components.
Take a look at this absurdly long list of apps. How many have been created at this point and half of them have overlap with a quarter of the list. And yet, from my experience, every single one finds a unique way to fall short of the basic functionality I expect from Discord. And I’m definitely not counting anything available through Nitro.
All of the ones that claim to be full Discord replacements have had incredibly difficult and multi-layered setups that don’t follow any regard for the ability to easily remove if it doesn’t work for you. Their instructions will start with ordering a VPS or will assume that you want to host on the public internet first or do wacky stuff like setup their own reverse proxy without me asking.
Mattermost was almost there. It even has voice and video sharing. But they don’t have voice lobbies. (Not counting the janky plugin) They all just find something that makes my friends not want to use it. Many of these projects are like 2-3 features away from being able to convince my friends to use them but until that day comes, the Dicksword will win.
It annoys me that a lot of Actual Budget stuff is on their Discord. Thankfully they have documentation on github and their website.
Because it has a lot of good tools for finding what you need on an intuitive platform focused around communities similar to Reddit.
Let’s be real Discord is popular because it does a lot of things really well.
it has a lot of good tools for finding what you need
As a moderator and the primary troubleshooter for a 12k member discord server, no the fuck it does not.
new user joins
Hey, how do I X?
It’s in pins.
new user joins
Hey, how do I Y?
It’s in pins.
new user joins
Hey, how do I Z?
It’s in pins.
Kill me. Or bring back old-school forums. One of the two.
Kill me. Or bring back old-school forums. One of the two.
A common thing you could read in old-school forums was “have you tried the search”, so I guess that leaves us with one option.
What your talking about has nothing to do with the tools and everything to do with stupid users never reading or using resources available.
Same way 1% users actually read server rules.
I would posit that if the tools don’t make the resources readily available and obvious (like a pinned forum thread that you literally have to scroll past to make a new thread), then the tools aren’t good.
The users found the Discord because they searched for their problem and the result was a recommendation to join the Discord.
If the answer had been indexable by search engines, the search engine would have found the answer and given it to the user. No need to even log in.
you search and go through the results. read a long one 3 screen lengths down the scroll and it was useless. go back to the search and it’s back at the top again. scroll more and question if they are even in the same order.
go to the pins and even though you saw it there yesterday its gone. look again later and it turns out sometimes it just takes loger to load them.
go to read the rules but then find out that sometimes they cant be viewed on android and you have to go to desktop to do it. epecially when the server has a bunch of things to click in acknowledgment before the channels show up.
Intiutuve?
Are you mad?
My country was getting age verification before the others but yesterday it just stopped for me, no idea why
Isn’t this their third attempt?
