no, i personally think its fascists specifically that shouldn’t be heard, and even then most can change their minds away from it. most of the rest can be reasoned with, talked to and compromised with.
Any decision about censorship is a compromise of some kind between open communication/access to information and the prevention of the spread of content that could be deemed harmful in some way or another.
Maybe I’m just being thick right now but I’m really not sure who are supposed to be the “children”. It seems it could just as easily be the CPC for being uncompromising in their censorship of the internet, fascist trolls who say they should have a right to use slurs and disinformation to incite violence, or liberals who are unwilling to accept that a hardline stance needs to be taken to censor the fascists.
I’m unsure if this is an enlightened centrist take, you saying the CPC (and similar) do what needs to be done or that we need our freedom and the commenter above is the child. Whatever you mean, your comment (at least to me) comes across a bit rude and unconstructive.
Ok your comment successfully ragebaited me so tbh I’m probably the child.
Edit: changed CCP to CPC because that is the technically correct term, even though for some reason most English language outlets use “CCP”
When they find out the extent of the censorship they mind very much. But that’s the problem, the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of the Chinese never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your WeChat, it’s ALL MEDIA. The Chinese don’t have access to over 90% of the internet, so they never find out what’s out there or know what information they’re missing.
And you’re just trading one dystopian nightmare for another. Saying one is better than the other is like saying having a foot cut off is better than losing a kidney. There is nuance, they’re both bad.
the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of the Chinese never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your WeChat, it’s ALL MEDIA.
Have you considered it’s actually the other way around?
The problem is the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of westerners never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your nazi.world, it’s ALL MEDIA.
Yes. But like I said, I lived there for years. True, the western media gets a lot of things wrong. But china is heavily censored, there’s no way around that reality.
Yes, and if you’re getting a 100% Rosey picture of China and the CCP guess what? It’s just different propaganda. There’s good and bad things about China. For me bad things outweighed the good.
i never claimed to have a 100% rosey picture of china.
its just that its miles better than the alternative championed by nations that haven’t stopped dropping bombs and economically coercing everyone else for at least a couple hundred years.
Are you seriously trying to say that western relations are more censored than china’s? One of those countries has locked off Internet. The other does not.
If you’re implying that there is no substantial amount of censorship in the west you’re kidding yourself. e.g. RT/TASS, Genocide in Palestine, Leftists/Communist thought, Removing TikTok is in the talks, etc. come to mind. Not like only one side is locking off their internet.
Also, not wanting western Nazi (social) media platforms is just self defense.
I’m saying the censorship is not even close to the same degree. Communists and leftists are not censored. If they were, I wouldn’t encounter them in main stream social medias.
Removing tic tok is not censorship lmfao.
Also, not wanting western Nazi (social) media platforms is just self defense.
If it was only banning the platforms, I would agree.
As a lib it definitely seems that way. There may be even too much amirte?
Removing tic tok is not censorship lmfao.
Id argue trying to remove a main stream platform with a flatter algorithm that allows for counter hegemonic content to go viral is a form of censorship, but in that case China blocking Western social Media isn’t either
If it was only banning the platforms, I would agree.
Yes, there is censorship. But the information is there if you search for it. The fact that you’re typing the words “genocide in Palestine” and I am reading those words pretty clearly demonstrates that the level of censorship in the west is no where near the level of censorship in China. If the CCPs position is “Israel has a right to defend itself” you would never even know there’s a conflict in Gaza.
they never find out what’s out there or know what information they’re missing
its literally really common in china for people to use VPNs to get around the blocks.
i suggest you read some leftist theory despite the propaganda your country does to make you hate it, you don’t seem to know you are missing it dearly in the US.
i suggest you read some leftist theory despite the propaganda your country does to make you hate it
Dude. They literally started the first comment with “I lived in China for 4 years”. When you start trying to “um actually” people with years of first-hand experience, it might be time to reflect on your own biases
just pointing out some hypocrisy. letting fascism fester in social media because some vague idea of “freedom” is no true freedom. motherfuckers in china can and do use VPNs when they want to.
ill have to reinforce my suggestion to expose yourself to politics beyond us propaganda.
Buddy, I lived there for years. My sources are the hundreds of Chinese people I spoke to in their native tongue for years. Not the propaganda from my country. True, SOME Chinese people have VPNs. Most do not.
And I think the more poignant question is this. Why do they need a VPN to access the wider internet in the first place?
what? i never claimed they needed VPN access. i claimed that most of them used it when they wanted to get around blocks. if i remember correctly, a good chunk (like almost a fourth of people) have used it before.
the real question is why would the average chinese need to use western social media? are they like, livid they don’t get to be lied to by the us government?
Stop with the pedantic BS. MOST do not use VPNs to get around censorship because MOST do not have a VPN. So again, why do the Chinese need a VPN to access the wider internet?
Should openly fascist people be allowed to vote [for government] in your opinion?
Why should they? As in, materially, how does society benefit from that? How does the democratic decision-making tool become more useful from it? I consider democracy to be a decision-making process, so I don’t care for vague idealistic assertions like “every adult should have the right to vote” unless there’s a benefit from it. And allowing an explicitly anti-liberal, anti-democratic, bad-faith opportunist (and fascism is explicitly and openly all of those) to vote is harmful to the democratic process and increases the odds of it making a bad decision.
No, reactionaries should be rehabilitated to the best of society’s capabilities. Participation in society isn’t sacred, the purpose of democracy is to deliver the best results for the most amount of people. Reactionaries that wish to expel and murder minority groups should be treated as any other violent criminal, through rehabilitation if possible.
it should not be allowed to be represented in a truly democratic election in the first place. acting fascists should be criminalized.
its the paradox of tolerance: we need everyone to have a baseline level of respect for each other for society to work harmoniously. fascism singles out defenseless groups to blame for their problems, breaking this harmony. and so it distracts its followers from the real causes and people they should be looking into.
definitely beats having fascism spread around unchecked (and even encouraged) like us tech companies.
If that was the only thing they censored then I don’t think as many people would mind
i don’t think most people actually living in china mind it very much at all.
“Only those who agree are allowed to be heard, but trust me bro, everyone agrees”
no, i personally think its fascists specifically that shouldn’t be heard, and even then most can change their minds away from it. most of the rest can be reasoned with, talked to and compromised with.
You don’t think they mind the censorship or what do you mean
yes
I mean could be, most people aren’t French and just take most stuff even if it’s not great
having to censor the spread of fascism is not great, but its better than actively spreading it.
Sure, I was thinking all the other stuff, like I mentioned
what other stuff are you thinking of, specifically?
Adults make compromises, children throw tantrums.
What do you even mean here?
Any decision about censorship is a compromise of some kind between open communication/access to information and the prevention of the spread of content that could be deemed harmful in some way or another.
Maybe I’m just being thick right now but I’m really not sure who are supposed to be the “children”. It seems it could just as easily be the CPC for being uncompromising in their censorship of the internet, fascist trolls who say they should have a right to use slurs and disinformation to incite violence, or liberals who are unwilling to accept that a hardline stance needs to be taken to censor the fascists.
I’m unsure if this is an enlightened centrist take, you saying the CPC (and similar) do what needs to be done or that we need our freedom and the commenter above is the child. Whatever you mean, your comment (at least to me) comes across a bit rude and unconstructive.
Ok your comment successfully ragebaited me so tbh I’m probably the child.
Edit: changed CCP to CPC because that is the technically correct term, even though for some reason most English language outlets use “CCP”
When they find out the extent of the censorship they mind very much. But that’s the problem, the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of the Chinese never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your WeChat, it’s ALL MEDIA. The Chinese don’t have access to over 90% of the internet, so they never find out what’s out there or know what information they’re missing.
And you’re just trading one dystopian nightmare for another. Saying one is better than the other is like saying having a foot cut off is better than losing a kidney. There is nuance, they’re both bad.
Have you considered it’s actually the other way around?
The problem is the censorship is so deep and so good that the vast majority of westerners never find out how extensive it is, because it’s not just your nazi.world, it’s ALL MEDIA.
Yes. But like I said, I lived there for years. True, the western media gets a lot of things wrong. But china is heavily censored, there’s no way around that reality.
we usually call it “propaganda”. the media has the means and resources to tell the truth.
Yes, and if you’re getting a 100% Rosey picture of China and the CCP guess what? It’s just different propaganda. There’s good and bad things about China. For me bad things outweighed the good.
i never claimed to have a 100% rosey picture of china.
its just that its miles better than the alternative championed by nations that haven’t stopped dropping bombs and economically coercing everyone else for at least a couple hundred years.
Are you seriously trying to say that western relations are more censored than china’s? One of those countries has locked off Internet. The other does not.
If you’re implying that there is no substantial amount of censorship in the west you’re kidding yourself. e.g. RT/TASS, Genocide in Palestine, Leftists/Communist thought, Removing TikTok is in the talks, etc. come to mind. Not like only one side is locking off their internet.
Also, not wanting western Nazi (social) media platforms is just self defense.
I’m saying the censorship is not even close to the same degree. Communists and leftists are not censored. If they were, I wouldn’t encounter them in main stream social medias.
Removing tic tok is not censorship lmfao.
If it was only banning the platforms, I would agree.
As a lib it definitely seems that way. There may be even too much amirte?
Id argue trying to remove a main stream platform with a flatter algorithm that allows for counter hegemonic content to go viral is a form of censorship, but in that case China blocking Western social Media isn’t either
I like how you skipped the censoring of TASS/RT
Yes, there is censorship. But the information is there if you search for it. The fact that you’re typing the words “genocide in Palestine” and I am reading those words pretty clearly demonstrates that the level of censorship in the west is no where near the level of censorship in China. If the CCPs position is “Israel has a right to defend itself” you would never even know there’s a conflict in Gaza.
Goes for China too if you use a VPN
I guess you never heard of shadow banning before. That never happens in the west right?
its literally really common in china for people to use VPNs to get around the blocks.
i suggest you read some leftist theory despite the propaganda your country does to make you hate it, you don’t seem to know you are missing it dearly in the US.
Dude. They literally started the first comment with “I lived in China for 4 years”. When you start trying to “um actually” people with years of first-hand experience, it might be time to reflect on your own biases
just pointing out some hypocrisy. letting fascism fester in social media because some vague idea of “freedom” is no true freedom. motherfuckers in china can and do use VPNs when they want to.
ill have to reinforce my suggestion to expose yourself to politics beyond us propaganda.
What hypocrisy?
Buddy, I lived there for years. My sources are the hundreds of Chinese people I spoke to in their native tongue for years. Not the propaganda from my country. True, SOME Chinese people have VPNs. Most do not.
And I think the more poignant question is this. Why do they need a VPN to access the wider internet in the first place?
what? i never claimed they needed VPN access. i claimed that most of them used it when they wanted to get around blocks. if i remember correctly, a good chunk (like almost a fourth of people) have used it before.
the real question is why would the average chinese need to use western social media? are they like, livid they don’t get to be lied to by the us government?
Stop with the pedantic BS. MOST do not use VPNs to get around censorship because MOST do not have a VPN. So again, why do the Chinese need a VPN to access the wider internet?
And there’s more to the internet to social media.
i literally didn’t say MOST people used it. just that it is common. and it is, i’m not the one being pedantic here.
Again, why would they need to access the western* internet?
I said this to someone else in this thread, but encouraging access to fascist propaganda can’t be equated to freedom.
Should openly fascist people be allowed to vote in your opinion? Just curious what peoples’ take on this is.
Why should they? As in, materially, how does society benefit from that? How does the democratic decision-making tool become more useful from it? I consider democracy to be a decision-making process, so I don’t care for vague idealistic assertions like “every adult should have the right to vote” unless there’s a benefit from it. And allowing an explicitly anti-liberal, anti-democratic, bad-faith opportunist (and fascism is explicitly and openly all of those) to vote is harmful to the democratic process and increases the odds of it making a bad decision.
Openly fascist people should not be allowed to draw breath.
No, reactionaries should be rehabilitated to the best of society’s capabilities. Participation in society isn’t sacred, the purpose of democracy is to deliver the best results for the most amount of people. Reactionaries that wish to expel and murder minority groups should be treated as any other violent criminal, through rehabilitation if possible.
it should not be allowed to be represented in a truly democratic election in the first place. acting fascists should be criminalized.
its the paradox of tolerance: we need everyone to have a baseline level of respect for each other for society to work harmoniously. fascism singles out defenseless groups to blame for their problems, breaking this harmony. and so it distracts its followers from the real causes and people they should be looking into.
The guy’s a braindead pedant. He’s not here to have a discussion, he’s here to feel superior.
please relax my dude
I wasn’t talking to you here. You’re dismissed.