It worked for me. Former Bible Quiz champion turned atheist, checking in.
I mean, it was a complex situation with a lot of variables, but my knowledge of the Bible (which I had been taught was absolute truth) along with my knowledge of my church’s dogma (which I had been taught was 100% based on the Bible) couldn’t stand up to my experience of the world.
I went to university and the “heathens” were nicer and more accepting than the Christians. None of my gay friends were actively trying to make me gay or to stop me from being a Christian (some of them were Christian themselves). My religion professors had a very different view of Christianity than I had been taught in church. The more my world expanded, the less relevant a literal interpretation of the Bible seemed. And my childhood church was just so narrow and sad by comparison.
Indeed. Here in Quebec Catholics used to be told not to read the bible since it was too complicated for them. They should have instead memorized select passages or listened to the priest’s interpretation on sunday at church.
Many atheists and agnostics say that the best argument against the Bible is the Bible. We’re not afraid of it. Rather we quote it. Quoting it shows that it is not only highly contradictory, it’s scientifically looney tunes, and just plain evil and immoral. Not to mention has content that, in any other context, would get it banned from alot of libraries.
They don’t affect them because they dance around them, either offering creative interpretations (aka apologetics) or they just ignore them. But contradictions are really important because demonstrating that they do indeed exist shatters a key piece of evangelical theology: Biblical inerrancy.
Because it means undermining the religious basis of conservative ideas for many Americans. Some who realise that their ideas on the LGBTQ community or abortion etc aren’t actually defensible purely based on the bible will be forced to confront their faith and worldview. Or if their education is thorough and soon enough, maybe they’ll never get to that point.
I dunno, there have been plenty of popes against abortion and LGBTQ stuff, pretty hard to claim they just haven’t read the bible. (Unless you’re JD Vance, that guy is apparently willing to tell the pope he should study theology or whatnot.)
American evangelicals and Catholics have very different relationships with the bible. Evangelicals (and other protestant traditions) treat the bible as the ultimate authority and claim that all their beliefs are supported by the bible. If you can convince an evangelical that the bible isn’t all they think it is, everything else can collapse pretty easily.
For Catholics, the Church is the ultimate authority, with the bible being just one of the strands of tradition it has developed over time. Telling a Catholic their doctrine of the Immaculate Conception isn’t in the bible won’t be a problem to them, because they’re perfectly comfortable accepting later traditions as just that. Evangelicals on the other hand will accept some of the same traditions like the concept of the Trinity, but they will fight tooth and nail to torture the text in the bible to justify their belief in it.
Thank you! This is a delightfully nuanced take which I super appreciate.
I know enough to know I don’t know much about theological fights but I think the basic idea that more bibe study doesn’t necessarily result in more people figuteibg it thr way I want then to is accurate?
Apologies, I am very much in a bar responding so, uhh, grain of salt etc?
No problem! That sounds about right. If you’re interested, I’d recommend checking out Dr Dan Mcelllan on YT. He’s a scholar of the bible who makes videos about where certain dogmas and doctrines come from and counters evangelical apologetics on topics like abortion, homosexuality, the Trinity etc.
Obviously it’s only any good if “Bible literacy” is taught by people who have actually studied the bible and aren’t bound by dogmas to a specific religious interpretation, which I don’t think is feasible. But if Bible literacy was really what they were teaching, chances are it would have a net positive impact on America.
Improved biblical literacy would go along way to undermine American evangelicalism, sounds good to me
It worked for me. Former Bible Quiz champion turned atheist, checking in.
I mean, it was a complex situation with a lot of variables, but my knowledge of the Bible (which I had been taught was absolute truth) along with my knowledge of my church’s dogma (which I had been taught was 100% based on the Bible) couldn’t stand up to my experience of the world.
I went to university and the “heathens” were nicer and more accepting than the Christians. None of my gay friends were actively trying to make me gay or to stop me from being a Christian (some of them were Christian themselves). My religion professors had a very different view of Christianity than I had been taught in church. The more my world expanded, the less relevant a literal interpretation of the Bible seemed. And my childhood church was just so narrow and sad by comparison.
Indeed. Here in Quebec Catholics used to be told not to read the bible since it was too complicated for them. They should have instead memorized select passages or listened to the priest’s interpretation on sunday at church.
would it tho? not sure this sounds “good”
Many atheists and agnostics say that the best argument against the Bible is the Bible. We’re not afraid of it. Rather we quote it. Quoting it shows that it is not only highly contradictory, it’s scientifically looney tunes, and just plain evil and immoral. Not to mention has content that, in any other context, would get it banned from alot of libraries.
i mean contradictions dont really seem to affect religious people, so im still reluctant to add more bibles to a religion problem
They don’t affect them because they dance around them, either offering creative interpretations (aka apologetics) or they just ignore them. But contradictions are really important because demonstrating that they do indeed exist shatters a key piece of evangelical theology: Biblical inerrancy.
Because it means undermining the religious basis of conservative ideas for many Americans. Some who realise that their ideas on the LGBTQ community or abortion etc aren’t actually defensible purely based on the bible will be forced to confront their faith and worldview. Or if their education is thorough and soon enough, maybe they’ll never get to that point.
I dunno, there have been plenty of popes against abortion and LGBTQ stuff, pretty hard to claim they just haven’t read the bible. (Unless you’re JD Vance, that guy is apparently willing to tell the pope he should study theology or whatnot.)
American evangelicals and Catholics have very different relationships with the bible. Evangelicals (and other protestant traditions) treat the bible as the ultimate authority and claim that all their beliefs are supported by the bible. If you can convince an evangelical that the bible isn’t all they think it is, everything else can collapse pretty easily.
For Catholics, the Church is the ultimate authority, with the bible being just one of the strands of tradition it has developed over time. Telling a Catholic their doctrine of the Immaculate Conception isn’t in the bible won’t be a problem to them, because they’re perfectly comfortable accepting later traditions as just that. Evangelicals on the other hand will accept some of the same traditions like the concept of the Trinity, but they will fight tooth and nail to torture the text in the bible to justify their belief in it.
Thank you! This is a delightfully nuanced take which I super appreciate.
I know enough to know I don’t know much about theological fights but I think the basic idea that more bibe study doesn’t necessarily result in more people figuteibg it thr way I want then to is accurate?
Apologies, I am very much in a bar responding so, uhh, grain of salt etc?
No problem! That sounds about right. If you’re interested, I’d recommend checking out Dr Dan Mcelllan on YT. He’s a scholar of the bible who makes videos about where certain dogmas and doctrines come from and counters evangelical apologetics on topics like abortion, homosexuality, the Trinity etc.
Enjoy your drinks!
Sounds very much worth at least checking out, thank you! I really would enjoy a more well rounded perspective on the bible.
And believe me, I did. Though, probably not ideal when a bartender from a different bar sees you and starts rocking shots with you…
i get what youre saying, but having more people read the bible in school also just seems a lot like throwing more fuel on the fire.
Obviously it’s only any good if “Bible literacy” is taught by people who have actually studied the bible and aren’t bound by dogmas to a specific religious interpretation, which I don’t think is feasible. But if Bible literacy was really what they were teaching, chances are it would have a net positive impact on America.
same