Did my ability to search for things intelligently on the internet die when Google search did or are there legitimately no personal umbrellas with solar panels and a battery pack? Like I feel like that would be an obvious thing, and there’s a bajillion beach umbrellas and patio umbrellas that have solar panels. How are there no personal versions for wandering around on a sunny day with portable shade that gets you a charged battery pack? Is this a thing and I just can’t find it or does it not exist yet and all of science has failed me in every way possible?
Sorry for the terrible AI picture, I didn’t create it I just found it on the internet and it was the only one I could find because these apparently don’t actually exist.
- portability
- cost
- efficiency
- return on investment
- market size
I think the umbrella did not satisfy all these parameters enough for it to take off
The weight of a battery pack sounds unpleasant for something you would be carrying for a long time.
“Rollable” solar panels are still pretty stiff. You would need a beefier mechanism to handle the extra forces required. They also have a pretty significant “minimum turn radius” so they would need an entirely new design for their mechanism to work without damaging the panels.
They do make personal solar array with a surface area comparable to your umbrella idea, but those would take days to charge a cellphone, so the charge you get walking around for a few hours is negligible.
It’s a cool idea, and would be a fun project to build and show off, but it’s not going to be marketable or practical without a whole lot of development in solar, battery and umbrella tech.
Meh, l stick with analog umbrellas. They don’t need electricity to open or close.
You could use a Sekiro shield: https://youtu.be/OCq8adZdKP4 It’d be rigid but… probably quite heavy.
A device, which is only used when it is really cloudy for photovoltaics has to be one of the dumbest ideas ever.
Parasol
Never used an umbrella to shield yourself from the sun?
I am British, so no
Yup this is the smart use I’m sunny regions.
Here is one…sort of: https://moolsunpower.com/products/40w-foldable-solar-umbrella?variant=40967191167173&country=US¤cy=USD&srsltid=AfmBOorDEQt36eFhOqOvwk6eMQWBxoBowGNXAR2_1P-6eZXD8X82HWZIhy4&gQT=1
Could the URL be any longer please?
You can delete all Text after ? https://moolsunpower.com/products/40w-foldable-solar-umbrella
Ah OK!
I actually did not, and here around, I don’t see anyone do that. I believe climate and culture are the factors influencing the popularity of using an umbrella as mobile shade.
Im beginning to see more people actually parasoling in the southern US and if im being honest… I’ve been tempted given how our heat and UV measurements are going.
Interesting. It appears that it is one side effect of climate change.
Side note: PV panels try to absorb a lot of light. Parasols try to reflect it, which is why they usually have a bright color. Imagine now holding an umbrella, absorbing more energy than your skin/hair would, causing you to sweat even more?
Umbrellas are used in sunshine and are often called parasols. It’s not a bad form factor, it just seems to have practical limitations, like being foldable and still useful. Love the idea, though.
Japan is ready. Other places can be made ready. It isn’t hard to prepare people for bikes or whatever. Solar panels on everything are potentially a good idea. I only worry that my umbrellas do not last.
Wait til a big gust of wind comes through and shatters your solar panels by inverting the umbrella/parasol.
Japan (and I think a number of other asian countires) has a lot of people using them as sun shades. Particularly when we walk a lot and even moreso in the concrete jungles like tokyo
Heck, I live in Canada and with our Summers as they are now it’s becoming a common sight here.
And you don’t think that carrying a 10kg umbrella is unsuitable for this type of climate, when you are already sweating with 500g?
I think it is also a cultural thing, as in asian communities brighter skin is preferred
I won’t comment on the cosmetic side of things, but it is several degrees cooler under a parasol/umbrella and that’s the usual selling point. I didn’t comment on the weight or practicality, either (I don’t actually think it’s practical with the technology we have today). I was pointing out that these would potentially be used in times other than when it’s cloudy as zr0 mentioned.
Have you heard about solar roadways?
:-)
I think there are some test roads in the Netherlands on the bike lane. Roads are used in all weather conditions, 24/7. Umbrellas not. Roads have approximately the same energy yield as any solar panel on the roof, minus the suboptimal angle and minus the road users causing shadows.
If you don’t see the absurd part in trying to put solar panels as a road then I’m sorry I can’t do anything for you 😁. There are exactly 0 practical reasons to do so.
There is nothing absurd about it. Every surface, which is constantly exposed to the sun, should be covered in PV panels.
Yeah, starting with a fucking road and having cars drive on it all the time instead of like, you know, putting the fragile panel on the side, so smart. I hope you’re joking 😂😅 what’s next, at the bottom of a pool?
You know there are transparent materials that can withstand forces of those, that are applied on a bicycle path. No one was even remotely talking about driving over unprotected panels. That’s just a weird imagination in your head. Instead of doing that, you could just invest a couple of minutes into reading what is getting tested already.
Netherland’s Solar Roadway Performing Even Better Than Expected!
You’re just digging the hole deeper.
I bet those transparent material are as strong and cheap as asphalt, and becomes magically clean from tire traces…
Why not put the panel on a stick on the side of the road? Is that not complicated and expensive enough?
Edit: that Netherlands project seems cheap. BTW I have a bridge to sell, interested?
Some areas still use the for just sun protection. Agree that it would not be a global product for now.
What about parasols
Different device, similar features. They tend to be much larger, making the weight an even bigger issue.
Beach umbrellas are mostly used on sunny days so I can see that.
Get a wind powered hat instead
Probably because it would weigh 40 pounds and cost $1700. It would probably also suck, and break very easily.
And having any of that shit anywhere close to saltwater? Hell no. The electronics should be corroded within a week.
Edit: while we definitely have the technology to do this, we just don’t have the capability to mass produce them at a reasonable price or of any reasonable quality. Current technology and materials also come with a lot of really crappy limitations. Maybe something like this might get developed if a lot of people suddenly show interest in it, but aside from that happening, it could be a while.
Developing a product like this could take hundreds of millions of dollars and 10 years to get something like in the picture above.
There’s plenty of solar panels that don’t weigh a lot these days
Nah. You could DIY something like that for 30€ or something, let alone mass produce. The only problem is that the folding would be more clumsy and probably take a bit more space folded
Edit: picture of a real product from which you could DIY one:
I have 2, around 25cm x 30cm and, when perfectly aligned to a strong summer sun, they do 1 watt and 2 watts respektively. Amazing.
Also, sitting outside in the harsh sun with a laptop? No thank you 😁.
This is really niche stuff for when you can’t even reload your power bank once every couple of days IMO.
Yeah, that’s my experience as well, you leave them out all day and get half a power bank if you’re lucky. Basically only worthwhile if you’re camping somewhere remote for an extended period of time.
I got one to charge my phone to 1%. Pretty happy
Now look at the standard umbrella and figure out if it is 25x30cm…
I’ve got a very similar panel myself, in fact it’s probably a bit bigger.
If you leave it out all day, under ideal conditions, it will put around 10AH worth of charge into a power bank, maybe a bit more, so 40-50 watt-hours if you’re lucky, over twelve hours.
Not a worthwhile amount of power.
Yeah this has always put me off solar panels like this, for their cost they make fuck all and if you just need power for a day or two it’s better to get a battery. Only if you need weeks does solar+battery start to make sense instead.
That charges a phone just fine?
I use a smaller panel to charge a battery at a summer cottage. That keeps my and a few other people’s phones charged pretty alright.
Not worthwhile if you’re carrying it around all day.
Why? You can carry your phone and charge it at the same time.
Why do you need to charge your phone during the day anyway? Does it not last a full day?
Modern smartphones are terrible for energy consumption tbh, if you just want calls/SMS an old Nokia is so much more energy efficient.
I suppose turning the phone off can help save, but how many people could even comprehend that these days?
Slapping one together out of spare parts is not at all the same as mass producing one in a factory.
And whatever you could slap together for 30 bucks would, as I said, in previous comment, suck and break very easily, not to mention that you wouldn’t be able to bring it anywhere close to the ocean for fear of everything corroding extremely quickly.
Yeah. Mass producing can be orders of magnitude cheaper.
It’s a ridiculous argument. Of course something like that could be manufactured, it’s just too niche of a market so nobody has made it a reality (yet).
Lol that tiny ass solar setup ain’t charging both a laptop and a phone, least of all with them running.
That can just barely charge a phone (source - I’ve done a lot of math around this, solar panels have very low output per square meter).
I would think of using the solar panel to charge a battery pack instead, then you can power devices from that. Although you may be charging the battery for 8 hours to power a laptop for 2.
Who said it would?
The picture clearly implies that.
A computer?
There is a cable running from the solar panel to the laptop, implying the panel is charging the laptop.
Which, based on my experience with them, ain’t happening.
Oh in that picture. Yeah I didn’t even think about that, I’d imagine for the original use case you would charge a phone. Laptops need a lot of power, I didn’t even dream of charging one off of a portable solar panel lol :D
People always severely underestimate how little power solar panels actually produce. In optimal conditions they get around 1000 watt per square meter, but are only around 20% efficient. So that means 200 watt produced at the panel. Once you convert that into something useable and transport it to where you need it, you’ll probably lose another 5 - 10%. And that’s a square meter, that’s more than you can comfortably carry. Think a flat panel of around 2 meters in length and 0.5 meters wide and lifting that above your head, pointed perfectly at the sun.
And the reality is, most solar panels even in permanent installations don’t experience perfect conditions. They don’t track the sun, so most of the time they aren’t perfectly aligned to catch all that energy. They are most likely never aligned perfectly, or if they are just a few days out of the year for like an hour a day. The sun isn’t always out, not just because you know night time, but also because of clouds and other weather or human related stuff. Lots of times there are shadows that prevent optimal workings. Dust and grime also plays a part. But another thing is temperature, solar panels are rated at around 20 degrees C. But when you put a black thing in full sun, you know it’s going to get scorching hot. This also reduces the amount of energy you can usefully extract from the sunlight as well.
The annoying thing about solar panels is they aren’t linear at all. It isn’t like when conditions are 80% from optimal, they produce 80% of the power. No, usually it’s more like 60%. And once you drop below 40% of optimal, you just produce basically zero. With a bit of effort this can be improved upon. For example I use microinverters which can regulate each panel individually, but even then it’s not great. And that’s with state of the art panels, which are very fragile, so they have a sturdy metal frame, a very tough plastic backing and a big ass layer of glass on top to protect them. If you get those more sturdy thin and light panels, you’ll be lucky if they get 15% efficiency (most likely a lot less).
So putting solar on anything that isn’t a permanent installation is usually pointless. It’s way too hard to get those ideal conditions and the panels aren’t very good to start with. If it’s moving, it’s hard to point at the sun all the time. Exceptions are maybe a small panel on the top of a campervans, which is probably the best case for a mobile installation and gets just a little bit of energy. But only if it doesn’t disrupt the wind profile of the van, otherwise it probably costs more in gas to push it along at high speed than it ever delivers back in electricity. One of those small foldable panels can also be useful when hiking for example. You can carry it collapsed on your back and if you take a break, you can fold it out, point it at the sun and get some useful energy for a couple of hours while you get some rest. Putting it on when hiking would be pointless, as it would be bulky when folded out, usually not pointed at the sun and under cover of trees for example.
Maybe the technology will improve in the future, but for now any useful personal solar is very niche.
You’re not gonna be lining a flexible handheld device with the kind of solar panels that can achieve such efficiencies even under ideal conditions. If you want an actual parasol rather than an unwieldy, rigid, parasol shaped bed for a bunch of solar panels, this is a job for the more alternative solar cell types that are cheaper and less efficient, but can be made thinner and lighter, and can be stuck on something like that. Unfortunately those generally have piss poor efficiency and they degrade to near uselessness very quickly.
Right, but it also depends on the application. It would definitely be enough for charging your phone a whole day at a festival. I’ve been using one of those “hiking” panels that you can put on a backpack. It is rated at 15 W, but I get less than 5 W out of it, which is still enough for charging my phone and not having to use a powerbank for the whole duration of the festival week; if it is sunny that is. I would love not having to bring both, an umbrella and the solar panel. E.g. Hellfest this year really was hot as hell, it definitely would have worked for this application.
But folding and weight would be a problem, and I don’t see it useful for any other scenarios. (E.g. at the beach or other one-day-events you just charge your phone at home/hotel and can use it the whole day.)
It’s a better product idea than you make out.
It does require industrial design, and tooling for flexible panel manufacturers to make umbrella patterned panels, as cheaply as rectangular patterned ones.
Flexible panells top out closer to 25% efficiency than 20%. 200-250w is a lot of power. The umbrella itself needs just a hook for a battery rather than coming with one. Solar or USB (up to 240w at 48v power) interfaces. This can power a mini pc with a couple of large monitors with power left over. 1kwh per day/m2 is enogh to cover a high power laptop, electric cooking, or if it were a beach parasol, keep a drink fridge cool, and boom box TF out of the place. Because you need an ebike to lug all of the crap to the beach, it can charge it back up. Besides beach use, a parasol would allow supplementary power for van/RV or even a house, when not beach party boomboxing.
Is your plan to walk around with your umbrella up when it’s bright and sunny, or to wait until it’s overcast, dark, and rainy—hoping I charge something?"
Maybe a parasol would be a better idea?
Funnily enough, the word umbrella derives from the Latin word umbra, meaning shadow. An Umbrella was originally for protection against the sun. I know it now usually is used for the thing protecting you from rain (at least in English), I just thought it was funny that people did walk around with what they called an umbrella when it’s bright and sunny for a few hundred years.
Get/create a solar backpack with a powerbank instead. That way weight is less of a concern and you can charge it when the sun is actually out without looking like a weirdo 😅
I have had the same idea. Photovoltaic cells are sadly all quite stiff and/or fragile …
The cells don’t have to flex to have a flexible sheet of them. Just attach them strategically to a material more suited for flexing.
For real though, I mean, you could also just use a different layout. You don’t have to use triangles and make a circle. You could have a square umbrella that folds out with a little bit of prodding.
So far. A lot of progress is being made on that front.
Do you usually use an umbrella when it’s sunny or would you do it just to charge the battery? I know it’s a thing but only very rarely see people do that, probably not enough to have demand for something like this. Backpacks with solar panels exist but I think these are pretty hard to find too.
It probably depends on where you’re from, but it’s a thing. In Japan you’ll see people walking with an umbrella to avoid the summer heat.
That’s called a parasol.
I get people think it’s the same thing, but this is a case where words matter.
If someone said “solar parasol” no one would assume they meant the device intended for rainy weather.
Well, umbrella literally means “little shadow” and is aptly used as a synonym for parasol in severeal languages. Just because the English misused them to shield against rain does not change the meaning. Or perhaps it does?
I’m pretty sure Japan doesn’t make that distinction.
This idea is right up there with Glow in the dark sunglasses.
Looks like this guy couldn’t get financed to make something similar: https://www.homecrux.com/solarbrella-turns-beach-umbrella-charging-dock-phone/74666/
– but my search did turn up alibaba results for similar stuff, so they probably just stole the idea from him.
Nitpick: You want a parasol or sunshade, not an umbrella. Umbrellas are for rain (latin origins aside). It is cloudy when it rains.
It would get stolen real quick too, unfortunately. Also probably very fragile or very heavy, and would only be useful for a very specific time of the year only (during very hot summer). No clue how much output that would make though, but I’m gonna guess it’s not going to be anywhere near useful.
