Summary
Former CIA Director Leon Panetta warned that Trump’s return to the White House could embolden Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, giving him a “blank check” in the Middle East and increasing the risk of war with Iran.
Panetta expressed concern that Trump would support Netanyahu’s aggressive stance against Iran without restraint, potentially worsening regional instability.
Panetta also predicted Trump might allow Russia to retain parts of Ukraine if he returns to office, though he doubted Trump’s negotiation skills.
He criticized Trump’s approach to foreign policy, suggesting Trump would be inclined to “capitulate” to authoritarian leaders, which may not sit well with some Republicans.
May the people in this sub who screeched Genocide Joe and threatened Kamala over her continued support for Israel get the policies they voted for.
But at least they got join MAGA to own the libs.
What is fucked is that no matter what happens. They will insist that it was all the Democrat’s fault and all the fault of communists and socialists. They will be believed both despite the absurdity of it all and because of the absurdity of it.
He criticized Trump’s approach to foreign policy, suggesting Trump would be inclined to “capitulate” to authoritarian leaders, which may not sit well with some Republicans.
Don’t they even know who they picked to represent them?
That should put paid to the myth that Trump is ‘the antidote to all the wars’.
I always thought that the argument ‘no wars were started during his presidency’ was bullshit.
He spent all 4 years totaling around 3 trillion in Afghanistan, to accomplish nothing.
Trump started plenty of wars https://youtu.be/QQYFVEka3fA
Waiiiiit, are you saying that not voting Kamala didn’t magically stop the genocide in Gaza???
That it only accelerates it, like I and other people have been saying for months???
WHO COULD HAVE SEEN THIS COMING?!
Well now that the election is lost, the Democrats could make true on their claim they would seriously end this, but had to wait until after the election…
I doubt they will, because every of their action has shown to be equally strong genocide supporters. But we should see the next days, as Israel still doesnt let anywhere close to 350 Trucks into Gaza, leave alone any into the north of Gaza. The ultimatum is running out.
Also as weapons deliverys to Israel have been and are illegal anyways under US law, now would be a great chance to get every Republican and Democrat who voted for them or approved them as part of the administration into jail and in front of a court.
Oh wait, they wont because breaking the law, which unsurprisingly helped the convicted felon win, was worth it, so genocide could be further supportet.
It’s not like the Republican house thwarted all of Biden’s efforts either
That is true. Which is why it doesn’t matter if the bombs given to Israel are red or blue.
However now Democrats lost over genocide. Now AIPAC cannot play both parties anymore by making blind support for Israel the deciding factor. The Democrats lost because of Israel. Now they need to purge the Zionists and rebrand as the non genocide party, if they want to win moving on. This locks AIPAC in as being only in support of the Republicans, which limits their political influence.
If it wasn’t for Harris/Biden loss, there was no hope for Palestinians, or any other people in West Asia in regards to US policy. Now there is a chance that one side of US policy will change.
I don’t think genocide is the only reason Kamala lost.
They lost because they ran a shitty campaign. The only politician with lower polling numbers than Biden are Dick Cheney (a war criminal) and she embraced him, and then bragged about getting support from corporate CEOs.
The campaign was moronic at best.
Are you saying Kamala and Biden had the power to stop the genocide in Gaza but chose not to as a bargaining chip with Muslims?
Good job putting words in my mouth, .ml
I said Trump would make the genocide worse. Which he will.
crazy to think that trump might do exactly what he said he was going to do. how could we, the voters, have predicted this?
Fucking DUH, god damn.
Whew! Good thing the moral purity brigade shunned Kamala Harris.
I mean, Trump will definitly ensure that the suffering of Palestenian people ends quickly
Judging by the lack of consequences for the previously observed war crimes, my bet is they’ll prolong the suffering to sate their revenge lust. See if anyone bothers to step in when they erect full blown torture camps.
Didn’t you know trump will stop the genocide…by writing a check so large that Israel completely removes Palestinians from the map… can’t have a genocide of Palestinians if there are no more Palestinians.
Check mate libruls
on the bright side we won’t hear anything about it anymore /s
The smugness of the average democrat at seeing Palestine being flattened by Democrat-funded bombs is a true sight to behold. Your inhumanity will be remembered.
Don’t worry there were no wars under Trump last time and there won’t be this time it’s that simple 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎
I genuinely don’t know whether you’re being sarcastic or not.
Yes, despite the smiley-spam.
It was sarcasm, hoped the smileys were enough but we live in a crazy world
Trump’s voters are so unhinged that it has become almost impossible to distinguish sarcasm from their real thoughts. Poe’s law n shit
i take comfort in knowing that most of the time it’s going to be sarcasm, since (in my experience) there are very few trump supporters on lemmy. and the few trump supporters that i’ve seen don’t tend to last.
I heard the “but there won’t be any of these wars once Trump is back” argument several times.
I would usually revel in watching the walls come down around someone’s stupid opinions, but in this case, we as a country have to suffer for it.
“But Trump will stop
me having to hear aboutall these wars.”Fixed for you. I heard the same from my mom - that it was a REAL SHAME Biden wasn’t trying to force Russia and Ukraine to peace.
Really shows how stupid and gullible the American electorate is. War is a classic “Wag the Dog” tactic.
Congratulations, idealists. You definitely stopped the genocide by refusing to vote for Harris and urging others to do likewise. A+ job.
Yep the Dems are accountable for nothing, but peaple who refused to vote for genociders are accountable for Trump’s action sure. Keep blindly following your party.
Maybe there’s plenty of accountability to go around and you deserve some too.
Also, please tell me which party is my party. I would like to know which political party I am registered with, please. With evidence, of course. Unless you’re trolling a moderator.
I am accountable for what ? For what the new president might do (when i clearly didn’t vote for him). You re litteraly criticising peaple for not voting Harris, stop the Whataboutisme. “Unless you’re trolling a moderator” LOL
You re litteraly criticising peaple for not voting Harris
Exactly.
Now you have one more chance to tell me what political party I am registered with and I expect evidence. Trolling is not allowed here.
The alternative is to admit you don’t actually know and just assumed I was a member of the Democratic party. Then you were just being uncivil, but I will let that go.
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Oh he’ll help end the genocide alright. You can’t genocide a people that’s already wiped off the planet.
ukraine is gonna get ‘helped’ similarly. putin will have a free pass once the u.s. aid stops. i don’t think the other nato countries or the e.u. can cover that, especially long-term.
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I hope as soon as US aid stops, they launch everything they have at major Russian cities.
right? they’re holding back for conditional western aid. as soon as the aid ends those conditions mean nothing.
Why would this be different from right now? If they could feasibly end the war they way, they absolutely would, and id absolutely condone it.
Because as far as I know Ukrain hasn’t been committing war crimes with western supplied arms.
I’ve always said they could ignore all conditions by saying there’s Hamas tunnels under the Kremlin.
I’m pretty sure it’s the most documented war of all time by now, we’d know. The Israeli war is much younger and it was readily apparent when the war crimes started. I’m pretty sure that’s why a lot of countries like to go dark from the internet when they kick up their bullshit.
I think the EU will change. If Ukraine falls, territory grabs from Poland, Finland and Hungary are next. Those are actually EU constituents.
Hungary will not leave the EU btw. Orbán’s days are numbered, what with the Tisza overflowing.
Y’all are thinking pretty small, Putin won’t just have a free pass about us aid, Putin has a pass to our entire structure. Their military might be shit but their Intel apparatus is not at all.
I truly cannot grasp how uninformed one has to be to claim to be for Palestinians but think helping Trump’s odds was strategically better. Such profound ignorance is on par with maga, themselves.
On another note I want absolutely nothing to do with Mehdi Hasan. I supported him for quite some time but he got tunnel vision to such a degree he ended up thinking completely irrationally and contributing to the problem. He’s venturing into Jill Stein territory for me.
“They” weren’t persons holding “real” opinions, I’m afraid. Just as the russians calling for “russophobia” 2 months prior to the special genocidal operation
I’m expecting mega stupid bullshit like Trump lifting sanctions in exchange for Russia standing down so Trump can send American planes over and show the world we have the biggest and best bombs, while his megadonors line up for Russian contracts and celebrate
Stoppig the genocide… Who started it?
Israel. What’s your point?
Cool so Trump won’t be responsible for stopping the genocide either. Everything falls on Israel.
No shit. That has nothing to do with this discussion.
Why did you bring up the genocide if you do not believe the American president has any responsibility for it? Biden has funded 70% of the cost of the genocide.
Gosh I don’t know, maybe because a huge number of people decided to allow in a rapist fascist dictator who is going to conduct his own two genocides domestically, thinking their protest vote or their protest abstention would totally teach the Democrats a lesson regarding Israel?
Have you spent the week in a cave?
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What did you do to stop the genocide?
Then he will be held to the same account Harris was.
What are you even talking about? Harris is the Vice President. Exactly what do you think her job responsibilities and powers are?
She said she would not have changed a single decision that was made during the Biden administration. Biden said that she was in 100% agreement with every decision made. Which means she agreed to the current conditions
I really hope you find solace in the idea that Harris and Trump would be equally bad for the world as Trump throws America into the garbage and tries to take the planet with it.
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Do you have any idea how much CO2 biden’s proxy wars have dumped into the atmosphere? How many chip manufacturers were given environmental exemptions for chip manufacturing? The actions from Democrats mirror the actions from Republicans. The only difference is that Republicans say all of those things out loud
Again, I hope you find solace in the idea that Trump and Harris are exactly the same when things get really awful. I’m sure you’ll feel much better about yourself not voting for her.
Block him, Squid. He’s doing this in every thread and you need to put this energy towards more important things.
I find solace in not allowing the continued rightward march of Democrats. Liberals are 100% to blame for our current conditions for never holding their own people accountable. At their current pace the DNC will be on par with people like McConnell in a few years.
Dude, you really need to just move on from Biden and Kamala. They lost and aren’t going to be in office much longer. Trump is the threat.
Tell us you don’t know what a VP does without telling us you don’t know what a VP does.
Okay my man look at the margins. The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan. And the thing is: Harris lost before Michigan even finished counting. So yeah, you’re barking up the wrong tree here.
The anti-genocide people could’ve all voted and it wouldn’t have flipped a single state outside of Michigan.
See, if you’d said the anti-genocide people who protest voted could’ve all voted for Harris, you might’ve had a point.
But turnout in this election for the Democratic candidate was significantly decreased, and an uncertain number of those were anti-genocide.
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
This is one of the excuses they are giving rather than accept any culpability whatsoever. “Even if we voted for Harris, Trump would still have won.”
And in the same breath, they’ll say it’s the Dems fault for supporting genocide.
“Or votes wouldn’t have made a difference in the outcome, but Dems lost because they didn’t do the thing that would have supposedly gotten our vote”
Yep.
That’s exactly what’s happening.
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Culpability for what? Nothing is forcing Biden and Harris to support such atrocities. Nothing forced them to abandon the left and the working class and cater to the right at every opportunity. If you want to point fingers, why don’t you start with the actual candidate leading the campaign, who consciously made all these decisions, and the party leaders backing her?
Was 2016 not enough of a wakeup call? Was the near loss in 2020 not a wakeup call? Here we are in 2024, repeating the same old song and dance, and people are still digging their heels in thinking that moving further and further right is a winning strategy for the Democrats and it’s everyone else’s fault when it doesn’t work again and again and again.
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028 and then wonder where it all went wrong once again when he loses to someone like Ted Cruz or Ron DeSantis.
Culpability for you supporting the atrocities.
That’s right, you. By helping get Trump into office since you and others refused to “vote for genocide,” you have let the guy who told Netanyahu to “finish the job” on national TV to take office. The same guy who is going to start more genocides- of brown and queer people- in the U.S.
That is your fault because you were too ideologically self-righteous to do anything about it.
I don’t want to hear any American voter who didn’t vote for Harris to claim anything about being anti-genocide. Because it’s a fucking lie. You can lie to yourself all you want, but if you lie about that to me, I’m calling you out.
Culpability for what?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
Maybe the party leadership will finally pull their heads out of their asses after this, but I won’t hold my breath. They’ll probably pick someone like Joe Manchin to run in 2028…
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
Maybe handing all three branches of a nuclear power to literal fascists?
I did that? The Supreme Court was already under control of the fascists because the DNC rolled over and allowed the Republicans to take the nomination away from Obama a year before the election. They again rolled over and allowed Trump to nominate yet another justice weeks before the election. In my district we voted in a blue congresswoman and had no senators on the ballot. Are these losses around the rest of the country my fault, too, or the fault of the people running those campaigns?
You really don’t grasp what has has transpired here do you? You think that those of us who have been ringing the alarms are just overreacting and it’s going to be business as usual?
How exactly were you ringing the alarm bells? By telling everyone to vote for Biden and then Harris? By telling everyone the obvious about what a piece of shit Trump is? How did that work out for us?
I’ve been ringing the alarm bells about how terrible the Dems have been performing and all the shitty policy they’ve been supporting (genocide, the rich, the right) and got so much pushback. I’ve been called a shill, a republican in disguise, an idiot, and everything else under the sun and look how things turned out for us. You supported a losing strategy from a party full of neoliberals that doesn’t give two shits about you or anyone else and now you want to point fingers. As I said before, how could it not be more clear after losing or nearly losing this many elections in a row that the DNC and their leadership is the problem?
Abstaining gave Trump the presidency. Abstaining for what reason varies, but Gaza was clearly an issue for some to stay home.
Yes, and I’m saying that Gaza wasn’t an issue for enough people to matter. Harris needed Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Michigan to win, and while I can see pro-Palestinian votes swinging Michigan I simply doubt there were enough of them in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin to matter. If you think otherwise, then you have more faith in the American people than me I guess.
This not to mention down-ballot congressional races.
Gave them everything they fucking wanted. This country is cooked.
The fact that the person representing the choice to act is also giving a WTF, dude face is hilarious.
The outcome of the election doesn’t change the fact that 18% of voters wasted their vote on a Russian plant.
In the end it didn’t matter but it does matter that they knew the election was close and their protest vote could’ve very well been the deciding factor. They decided to make the statement despite the risk of having someone much worse winning. Now, go plead your cause to Trump.
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There is no way for you, or anyone, to know how many people abstained from voting over any one issue, 🤡
Please give me the numbers of these in every swing state along with how they were determined.
Trump voters: “Trump is the most peaceful president ever. We need to bring the defence spending to Ukraine home. America first”.
Trump is elected and inevitably drags the US into yet another war in in the Middle East
Trump voters: Pikachu face
Nah. Just kidding about that last part. It was all just empty rhetoric to justify the grift and looting all the way down as the country burns to the ground in the background.
Nothing yet happened but you’re already crying like it did.
Believe it or not, he’ll probably cut subsidies to Israel, get a peace deal in Ukraine (yeah, by giving his buddy Putin parts of the country), and he surely won’t start any war with iran.
And all you’ll be able to do is continue fuming on the internet while being factually wrong. And in the end it won’t be a surprise to really anyone but you that your party will lose electrons over and over.
Don’t forget that if we pull funding from Ukraine, the proxy war with Russia will potentially morph into the most peaceful war between Russia and our allies.
Trump is very isolationist. I’d be quite surprised if he committed to any conflict directly. Funding Israel to fight for him however…
I find it odd when someone says Trump is this or Trump is that as if he’s consistent on anything. His absurd narcissism is the only consistent thing about him. You can bet your ass he would drag us into a war if it would stroke his ego in some way.
That is what makes him so uniquely dangerous. He has no ideology to speak of. His focus shifts back and forth so often that trying to predict exactly what he’s going to do is impossible. You can say with certainty that he won’t be motivated by any sort of desire for the public good but that’s about as specific as you can get until he starts doing something.
Seriously, it’s amazing that more people don’t understand that Trump does only what Trump thinks will benefit Trump, even if it’s just benefiting the ego.
You criticize my statement about what Trump is for being too absolute and then make your own.
He had 4 years in office and didn’t deploy troops anywhere. The evidence supports my hypothesis so far.
Guess were all in on genocides rather than pretending were not enabling it and hoping it sorts itself out, sorry.
I can’t convince ~74,000,000 morons to change their mind. ¯\(ツ)/¯
I would hedge my bets for now. Alternative scenario: The Saudis throw another party for Trump, make some business deals in exchange for reigning in Israel. The House of Al Saud of course doesn’t care about Palestinians but their people do and a party and some business is a low price to pay to be celebrated by your subjects.
When it comes to Russia, Trump may realise that Putin way overplayed his hand, but that’s balanced by animosity towards Zelensky. OTOH, I mean, business deals. Don’t underestimate Ukraine when it comes to being smooth operators. They can sell NASA/SpaceX rocket engines made from Russian war reparations titanium.
Thing is: Trump is highly neurotic and thus, while not necessarily predictable, highly manipulatable if you know what you’re doing. Only have to blow the right smoke up his ass.
Since we’re doing copium, my hope for Ukraine is that the industrial-millitary complex wants to keep sending weapons there, so it will find a way.
Just have to be the last one to blow any smoke up there.
I would hedge my bets for now. Alternative scenario: The Saudis throw another party for Trump, make some business deals in exchange for reigning in Israel. The House of Al Saud of course doesn’t care about Palestinians but their people do and a party and some business is a low price to pay to be celebrated by your subjects.
Blech… this honestly seems more likely to me now, plus it can be used as propaganda to “prove” that he did something about genocide, to keep people voting red…
Take your bow single-issue voters and protest voters. We tried to warn you.
You did this.
Yeah but GeNoCIdE JoE, etc.
Nah the DNC did this by abandoning their principles and base in a failed attempt to appease conservatives and some foreign government.
Arguing that people should just support, fund, and arm human slaughter, and likening it to something basic like marijuana legalization or taxes, all so you can win a contest is fucking insane coming from the supposed left, but it really just shows how far to the right the party has gone.
You did this.
So… let’s get this straight. Trump won because he got more votes. I voted against him, you didn’t.
Yet it’s my fault.
That’s some gargantuan big-brain logic there bud.
Who said I didn’t vote against him? You’re just creating a strawman to validate your argument even though you couldn’t be further from the truth. The DNC ran yet another terrible campaign and alienated a bunch of their voters. The people still defending this insanity that has happened almost 3 elections in a row are the people to blame. Are you defending the 2016 and 2024 campaigns? Do you approve of the neck and neck 2020 campaign? How many elections are you willing to lose in a vain attempt at sticking to a losing strategy?
Did you vote for Harris or Stein?
I voted for Harris begrudgingly. Can you please get back on topic now or have you run out of excuses for why she lost and it’s not her or the DNCs fault? As I said, you’ve just created a strawman, and completely derailed the discussion with some “gotcha” that didn’t pan out, not that I really believe you’ll believe me and will likely claim I’m lying so that you can pretend that you were right all along and everyone else is “the problem” and if that’s the case then you can expect the Dems to keep losing elections until you run out of people to blame.
Are you willing to address any of my arguments or are you just going to continue to keep your head buried in the sand?
That person wasn’t even the person you were arguing with.
