KEY POINTS

New European car registrations of Tesla vehicles totaled 8,837 in July, down 40% year-on-year, according to the European Automobile Manufacturers Association, or ACEA.

BYD recorded 13,503 new registrations in July, up 225% annually.

Elon Musk’s automaker faces a number of challenges in Europe, including intense ongoing competition and reputational damage to the brand.

  • Jaberw0cky@lemmy.world
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    7 hours ago

    I haven’t bought anything from a USA company since Trump being his second term. I canceled Amazon prime. I sought out UK and EU suppliers for all my products and services. Installed Linux (German based distro, sorry fedora) closed my social media apart from lemmy and migrated my emails to an EU service. Oh and bought a Chinese made electric Dacia. You can do it, it wasn’t even hard.

    • Kühlschrank@lemmy.world
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      6 hours ago

      It is an incredible self-own for the USA that won’t really be felt for a few years at least. To abandon research and future markets tech like electric vehicles and green energy, and to abandon them at the exact time China goes all in on it? Are they trying to put themselves in a position of irrelevance? Because that’s exactly what I’d do if that’s what I wanted.

      • Tuukka R@sopuli.xyz
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        5 hours ago

        I guess they really are. Much of the decisions are based on what TikTok tells people to think. Facebook allows for Russian influence, TikTok is steered from Beijing.

        The idea of “USA shouldn’t make electric cars” dies come from China, and exists precisely in order to put USA into disadvantage.

    • __ghost__@lemmy.ml
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      7 hours ago

      Are you based in the US? I’m curious how much the import taxes were on the EV

      • syreus@lemmy.world
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        22 minutes ago

        Patriotism…

        Username is Ernstrommel.

        Are you wearing your kampfbinde right now?

        The word you are looking for is nationalism. Völkisch is the flavor you are probably after.

      • Jhex@lemmy.world
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        5 hours ago

        if you had any real patriotism, you would not be this complaisant as your country is flushed down the toilet

      • Rob Bos@lemmy.ca
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        5 hours ago

        I shall. If the USA continues to threaten Canadian sovereignty, I will refuse to trade with them.

        When Trump (may his anus be infested with cancerous hemorrhoids) dies, I will pop open a patriotic bottle of Crown Royal and listen to the wails of his cult with delight.

  • A Wild Mimic appears!@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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    6 hours ago

    The article mentions the reputational damage with a half-sentence, but we all know the main reason no one wants to buy a swasticar is. Europeans have quite the attention span, and as long as Elon is associated with Tesla - which is pretty forever - their brand is poison. Not very truthful journalism, this is.

    • middlemanSI@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      Tesla also makes inferior cars. Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car. Tesla car is a kind of an early access with their bugfix patching. Teslas’ main product is also your data.

      • FishFace@lemmy.world
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        10 hours ago

        Tesla cars were a very good prospect until pretty much this year. Most people are fine with everything being on a big dumb screen instead of having proper buttons (even though it’s a usability and safety nightmare) and once you get past that, they’re comfortable and practical - and well-priced compared to the non-Chinese competition.

        But now, Elon outed himself as an actual Nazi, and took away proper indicators and gear selectors.

        • DoGeeseSeeGod@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          7 hours ago

          Don’t most them don’t have a mechanical way to open the door? Like if the battery dies or there is a software glitch you legit can’t open the fucking door. Ppl have literally died cause their shit ass doors only unlock electrically.

          • FishFace@lemmy.world
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            6 hours ago

            The normal way to open the door is with a button that cracks the window slightly, because the door does not contain an upper window frame for aesthetic reasons. However, there is a mechanical release.

            What you will be thinking of is that on some models (I can’t remember which exactly) the mechanical release for the rear doors is not in an obvious place, so if you need to get out in a hurry, u gon die.

            This is obviously moronic design and risks lives for no practical benefit, but most people don’t base their purchasing decisions based on what might go wrong in a tiny number of crashes. You could compare it to a decision to buy a luxury car rather than a normal one: that’s tens of thousands of currency units that you could set aside to retire a year early, or in case you or some close to you hits bad luck. The practical choice is to buy the normal car (or the non-Tesla), but the likelihood that it will be important is very small, so it’s not really crazy to make the non-practical choice.

      • Anivia@feddit.org
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        10 hours ago

        Tesla also has a big unneeded tv in the car

        I used to think the same, before I bought a (non-Tesla) EV myself. It’s very convenient to have some entertainment other than your phone during charging stops.

        • BackgrndNoize@lemmy.world
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          2 hours ago

          You can have a big screen in your car and physical buttons to control things, also anyone can carry a tablet in their car for entertainment as well

        • Frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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          10 hours ago

          It would be nice if there were some thought into charging stops. Like I want a halfway decent sandwich and a coffee while I’m here. Usually, all I get is the far end of a Walmart parking lot. If there’s anything in walking distance at all, it’s probably across a stroad with no pedestrian signals.

          Oddly enough, EVs are better in walkable cities.

          • WraithGear@lemmy.world
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            4 hours ago

            if i owned a restaurant, i would KILL for a bunch of chargers. think about it! your stuck there for like at least a half an hour. why not just grab a bite? your a captive audience at that point. or theaters? gas stations seem to be the WORST place for them, because their need for fast turn around.

            what i would have done with gas stations would be to have a battery swap system, sorta like a propane tank refill. now the cars would have to be designed where some batteries would have to be slotable by the user, but a benefit would be instant charge using a battery subscription deal. it would also effectively remove the max mileage concern from EV entirely, and the gas stations would not need much retro fitting at all.

                • Frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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                  4 hours ago

                  Standardization, designing the whole car around it, and the complex mechanisms to automatically change the system. Batteries are heavy and need chonky, high current connections. Those connections are easier if they’re wired in and left alone for the life of the car. Also, can’t take advantage of making the battery more integrated into the frame to reduce weight.

                  It’s not a new idea. Whole bunch of companies tried it and failed to go anywhere. Formula E ruled it out for safety reasons; in earlier seasons, drivers swapped cars instead of packs.

          • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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            8 hours ago

            Charge stations should be on the Italian Autogrill model. Only in Italy can you get the best food in the country at a gas stop.

            • logi@piefed.world
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              5 hours ago

              Hell yes. Unfortunately the Tesla chargers here are not at the Autogrills and you have to get off the motorway and usually into some random hotel parking lot for those. But there will be other fast chargers right at the Autogrills so I end up using those 🤷

        • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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          8 hours ago

          The problem is actuarial data that shows Teslas have more frontal collisions which is because of the screen which is on track to being banned in EU. The second problem is the brittle cast aluminum frame shit out of Giga presses that makes most collisions a right off. Hence very high insurance costs on the Teslur.

      • Repple (she/her)@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        I’ve read a number of European reviews of the byd dolphin and most I’ve seen have compared it unfavorably to European EVs

        • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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          8 hours ago

          The problem with auto reviews is that they are all advertising. They never mention reliability as a concern. Australia killed off local GM and Ford production and they brought in Chinese EVs two years ago. Consensus already is that they don’t last.

        • givesomefucks@lemmy.world
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          9 hours ago

          Looks like the average Euro EV is ~44k and the dolphin comes in under 30k, under 25k in UK…

          It definitely doesn’t have all the bells and whistles, but it’s a shit ton cheaper.

          The people writing reviews for brand new cars have a target demographic: people that routinely buy new cars.

          The majority of people won’t have the same priorities, especially these days.

          • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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            8 hours ago

            EU has a dozen EVs under 25,000. Average car costs are misleading, the mean is a more important number.

        • Tar_Alcaran@sh.itjust.works
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          9 hours ago

          They usually compare it to cars of a similar size, instead of similar price. and yeah, when you’re buying a car of the same size that’s 5k cheaper, you’re getting less car.

    • wheezy@lemmy.ml
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      2 hours ago

      I kinda wish Elon was a Chinese agent and Trump was really a Russian agent. It would make more sense at least.

      But instead we have two people making the exact same decisions that a state agent would do to sabotage the US and it’s industries but it’s all because of their absolute incompetence instead. Which is far less exciting and far more pathetic.

  • Ziggurat@jlai.lu
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    7 hours ago

    I don’t get how US stock market pretends China isn’t bringing global competitors.

    BYD is taking a huge market share on the EV, Temu takes a big market share on e-commerce but both Tesla and Amazon keep growing

      • Typhoon@lemmy.ca
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        2 hours ago

        I’m pissed that Canada followed the US’s stupid protectionist tariffs on BYD cars.

        American car manufacturers spent years lobbying against fuel efficiency and EV uptake and now that they’ve put themselves at a disadvantage they need the government to artificially prop them up so they don’t go under. I say let the fuckers rot in the grave they created.

  • krigo666@lemmy.world
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    10 hours ago

    I will buy neither.

    BYD is selling a lot because is subsidized heavily by the chinese government to disrupt european brands, and this despite having a 35% tariff on top for not disclosing this to the EU.

    • wheezy@lemmy.ml
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      2 hours ago

      Every country subsidizes it’s major industries like that. Also, this is public knowledge. China isn’t secretly hiding their state ownership and subsidies.

    • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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      10 hours ago

      BYD is hiding $44B in debt. Chinese EV industry is eating itself and is the next Evergrande. They are losing money on every sale.

    • Damionsipher@lemmy.world
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      10 hours ago

      The stock is actually up 10% this month. The stock market is a shell game on full display at this point.

      • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
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        9 hours ago

        I’ve come to the conclusion that the stock market is just a representation of wealth inequality and oligarch theft than it is of the economy or any companies value.

      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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        7 hours ago

        TSLA is not the stock market. It’s a cult. The valuation of that company follows no rules of Commerce.

        • Damionsipher@lemmy.world
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          6 hours ago

          The stock market is a cult. Company valuations have detached from any sense of use-value reality - most of the stock markets’values is derived from how much money a stock might make and not what value a company provides to society. Valuations don’t even mirror how much revenue potential companies have, but make it up based on future revenue potential, which can be easily manipulated to simply create wealth. It’s been this way for a long time, but the extent of the situation has lost nearly any attachment to reality.

      • kautau@lemmy.world
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        7 hours ago

        Certainly had a sharp decline in January, but looks like the investors no longer care about the musky smell about the place

    • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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      10 hours ago

      That’s only a part of the reason. Europe now has 12 models of EVs at €25,000 that by every measure, are better.

    • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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      4 hours ago

      Over Tesla I’d say they are.
      BYD are not the best, but they are comfortable and cheap and charge fast.
      MG has probably the cheapest BEV that is actually a decent car with good range.
      Xpeng has insanely well equipped luxury cars, BMW luxury at VW prices.
      Nio has the battery swap that is insanely fast, a battery swap is faster then even BYD 1 GW charging.

      There are so many more options, and all of them beat Tesla in some way or other.
      If you want a better Tesla than a Tesla, you can get a VW instead of model 3 and model Y, or BMW or Mercedes instead of model S.

      And none of the above cars will nearly as likely kill you as a Tesla might.

      • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca
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        7 hours ago

        Ok but one way to make an EV charge faster and cost less is to put in a smaller battery.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          6 hours ago

          A small battery charges relatively slower, think of the small battery as only 1 element, and the larger battery consisting of 2 elements charging in parallel.
          The best the small battery can ever achieve is to charge equally fast to 100%, but 100% is only half the power. But the big battery can charge the same amount of power in half the time.

      • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
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        8 hours ago

        are we just ignoring the glaring fact that these are rolling internet connected computers with cameras and who the heck knows how many other sensors, inside and outside?

        I wouldn’t want such a “car” from a European company even. but I guess ignorance is bliss, and we have nothing to hide.

        • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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          5 hours ago

          Unless it has escaped your attention, USA is not an ally of EU anymore except on paper. USA vs China is about the same to us now.
          Traditionally EU has allowed USA a lot of leeway to spy on us through their technologies, under the assumption that USA was an ally, but it’s actually USA we are trying to prevent from continuing that spying we know for sure they do.
          We do not have evidence of similar Chinese spying.

          So there you go, it’s OK you don’t want either Chinese or European cars as an American, but to be honest, the American cars have already been documented to spy on Americans, passing data on to American authorities, which for instance resulted in the destruction of a Waymo car at a demonstration.
          So for Americans everything OTHER than an American car might actually be preferable in that regard!!!

          So as I see it, you are the one who is naive and ignorant.
          They may all spy, but the only ones we know do it for sure are the Americans, and then the question is who is the biggest threat, and right now that too is the US government, that shows a complete disregard for both law, human rights and humanitarian issues and allies and agreements and democracy.

          • WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works
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            4 hours ago

            Unless it has escaped your attention, USA is not an ally of EU a

            it has not escaped my attention, both are equally bad.

            Traditionally EU has allowed USA a lot of leeway to spy on us through their technologies, under the assumption that USA was an ally,

            and now they’ll keep allowing it for the chinese out of fear that it would significantly worsen chinese relations.

            We do not have evidence of similar Chinese spying.

            how, don’t those have a cellular connection too?

            in this article the byd boss doubles down on this by saying they use google cloud services to store and process the information… now, do you think that somehow that protect us from the usa?

            then its another thing what type of data they collect. facebook does most of its business in a GDPR compliant way, and that means nothing as users just sign away their consent for all kinds of data to be collected, otherwise they can’t use the service.

            Unfortunately, the mozilla privacy not included team did not review byd, but maybe you are not surprised that I doubt they are better than any of the European brands.

            as an American,

            I’m not an american. I live in the EU, and I think this is the least bad place when looking at digital rights.

            that however does not make me trust volkswagen, renault, or whoever other EU car companies either for nearly the same reasons as chinese car companies.
            we could say I’m allergic to any car that can be remote controlled and interrogated over a network.

            for instance, this is how renaults fare: https://www.mozillafoundation.org/en/privacynotincluded/renault/

            They do, like the rest of the car brands, collect a lot of personal information about you like your name, address, and your vehicle’s VIN number. They also collect data about your driving and what you do in your car: When you accelerate, pump the brakes, or use multimedia. They also record all your interactions and conversations with them. Again, for car companies, this level of data collection seems pretty standard.

            So for example, Renault collects “Data related to your personal and/or professional situation (family situation, socio-professional category, etc.)”

            how do they even get access about any of these two?? if we are fortunate, only by a question on the registration form or shortly after registration.

            More on those commitments, Renault sometimes shares your personal information in ways that don’t seem totally necessary, or in their words, for “explicit, legitimate and determined purposes.” For example, they say then can share it with “[a]ny associated or connected motor manufacturer from whom we purchase or hire goods (and their group companies)” and “partners.” It’s also not clear to us whether they will only share your personal data with law enforcement when they are legally obligated to, according to the language they use in their UK Privacy Notice.

            It’s not looking amazing for one of the “good ones,” we know. Yet we still have one last beef (or should we say beouf?) with Renault. They’re part of a strategic alliance with privacy-monster Nissan, one of the worst car companies we reviewed a privacy. What does that mean exactly for the fate of your personal data? Well, probably not much thanks to the strong legal protections in place. Still, given these companies’ cozy relationship, we’ll take it as a cautionary tale for what Renault might do if they could.

            and then remember what they said about data sharing with partners: “[a]ny associated or connected motor manufacturer from whom we purchase or hire goods (and their group companies)” and “partners.”

            their conclusion? that it’s standard levels. and that even in the EU, they are among the better ones! but that does not make it acceptable.

            and you could say that “but you can just remove the entertainment system’s fuse!”, and that would be right. kind of.
            until the car gets to the service, where even the diagnostic tool that uses always online DRM will be able to transfer whatever information it just wants, or if I sell the car, the next owner replaces the fuse and all the recorded information gets uploaded.

            with byd, it also does not happen to help in ignoring chinese spying that my government leans to china (besides russia), they are installating face recognition capable chinese camera systems against EU law, and installing huawei network equipment for important infrastructure left and right.

            • Buffalox@lemmy.world
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              2 hours ago

              I’m not an american. I live in the EU, and I think this is the least bad place when looking at digital rights.

              Why then do you call Europe “they” instead of we? “and now they’ll keep allowing it for the chinese”
              If you think car cameras are used for surveillance, it’s not just electric cars, but is in ALL new cars from all countries.
              So what was the point really of you previous comment???

        • RedGreenBlue@lemmy.zip
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          7 hours ago

          That is all new cars, regardless of propulsion method or manufacturer. Your data will be sold, traded, aggregated, deanonymized and sold again as long as world goverments don’t put a stop to the current surveillance economy.