“As a trans man, I have the immense privilege of blending in. But these laws force me to choose between safety and obeying the law.”
The people who make these laws completely forget that trans men exist.
No they didn’t. The point of these laws is exactly what has happened in this article. It’s to force trans people in general to make an impossible choice and be pushed out of existing in public society. There is literally nothing about these laws that is expected to improve anyone’s safety - that’s just the cynical rhetoric used to stop liberals objecting.
I don’t think they care. It’s all about scoring cheap political points
The fact police weren’t even informed about the law says a lot about the priorities
The fact police weren’t even informed about the law says a lot about the priorities
It would be a hard sell to make me believe the police didn’t know what was going on here. They’re playing innocent in a difficult situation at best.
Okay, this is exactly the kind of malicious compliance that I can get behind. Fucking legends.
Travelling the state, shitting for a cause. Big ups to the GOATs!
It’s funny because it’s barely even malicious compliance, it’s just following the law 😭😭
yes, that’s what malicious compliance is
Well yeah but isn’t it usually taking advantage of small technicalities within a law to cause disruption? This is literally taking the law at face value, as it was intended
Malicious compliance generally doesn’t involve technicalities, just following the rules. The maliciousness comes from knowing that following the rules, exactly as they are written down, will cause problems and disruption, and then doing it anyway, allowing the rules to override things like common sense.
As I understand it, it’s generally any form of compliance. Typically, it’s abusing technicalities, but what makes it “malicious” is that it subverts the intention behind the rule or order.
This law was designed to harass women. The transphobia is the vehicle used to deliver that intent, but for all its bigotry, it clearly isn’t the ultimate point. All the discourse is about “protecting (cis-)women”, about transfem athletes, and so on. Frankly, I’m not sure the type of politician to push this type of politics even remembers that transmascs exist. Even if they do, it’s not like they could do anything about it that wouldn’t risk collateral damage among cis-men.
Imagine how it would to if you tried to apply the “bathroom genital check” to the gender that invented etiquette about not standing too close to others when pissing. The geriatiric shrimpbearers in power would have a meltdown over the idea of someone manhandling their dick to make sure it’s real.
(Nothing wrong with a small dick, just with making your insecurity about it someone else’s problem.)
Now, unlike the transphobia, they can’t make the misogyny explicit in the law (or at least they aren’t sure they’d get away with it yet, so why risk it?). The law as written technically also applies to transmascs, even though they weren’t the target and it realistically would never be enforced against them.
Thus, the malicious compliance is that the transmascs carry out the letter of the law rather than its spirit, fully expecting the predictable result and provoking the authorities into tipping their hand.
For the lawmakers it has an added bonus of being a double bind for transmascs. Passing for cis isn’t binary or consistent, every trans guy has to guess what the likelihood is that any time he uses the men’s room someone will think he looks trans and call the cops. There is no safe answer for him (trans women have a similar situation). For both trans men and trans women the less likely to get the cops called answer will tend towards men’s rooms, but that’s only because men are less likely to call the cops on a woman in the men’s room.
they are going out of their way to create situations where they follow the law and cause disruption. that makes it malicious.
the intent of the rule is irrelevant.
Ah okay, fair enough
Malicious compliance is about applying an overly literal interpretation of a rule. There is nothing overly literaral about acting as if a law requiring trans people to use the wrong bathroom requires trans people to use the wrong bathroom.
that is one method of performing it, yes. that is not the only method.
Love it but I prefer “You best respect my trans homies, before I change your pronouns into was and were”
I know those ain’t pronouns but they can’t read so fuck it
A slight rewrite can fix that
“ unless you wish to identify as was/were, you’d best respect my trans homies”
-furiously scribbles notes-
See, this is why protest signs need to be crowd-sourced.
How about
“Respect trans people or you’ll identify as was/were.”
I think it hits better if you put the demand first to set up the context and the “or else” second to deliver the punch. “Respect my trans homies, unless you wanna be a was/were” ends on the implication to wonder about. Putting it first might distract them from the second half of the message.
Not quite happy with my versuon either, though I’m not sure why. Might need more workshopping still.
Wow I love that sign.
I wonder if I could get that as a bumper sticker.
You can get literally anything as a bumper sticker.
That was the point, they wanted a loss loss situation for trans people.
Almost as though the goal was to criminalize trans people for existing.
That’s crazy, you irrational accusatory liberals will never have any credibility as long as you keep accusing your enemies of doing bad things and having evil motivations based entirely on the things they do and reasons they give internally for doing them. If you cant assume good faith of Heinrich ‘skeletor’ schlafly-morgoth and his industrial sea otter rape program maybe you just don’t have a place in civilized debate.
Heinrich ‘skeletor’ schlafly-morgoth
Should be chiseled into his tombstone.
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That is one of their goals but it’s also to criminalize being trans. No need to deny transphobia exists to make a point.
I might go an extra step and suggest it’s an attempt to control everyone.
That’s the goal of the government but the goal of those neckbeards is to see women naked. Look how happy they are now that they are paid to force women to get naked in front of them.
Bunch of pervs.
What are you trying to say? Cause it’s so vague and unclear that I can’t tell if you’re pro- or anti- trans
Sorry English is not my primary language.
I mean the current government and those who put them in power wish to ban trans and make their life hell.
But the goal of the neckbeards who took the job of policing women’s bathrooms is to harass women into getting naked in front of them.
I went into a bathroom, and there was either a trans or CD person presenting as female using the urinal. It threw me off, and I thought I went into the wrong bathroom for a sec. Took me a second for my brain to realize, wait, that’s a urinal, so I’m definitely in the right place. Because I’m not a piece of shit, I laughed off the awkwardness of seeing a female using a men’s urinal and went about my day, but these conservatives who get all mad about trans women using the women’s room will 100% be just as outraged when they are in the men’s room and see one at a urinal.
Yeah the last time I used a men’s room was basically that scenario, except the guy saw me, went to check the sign, then came back in.
I may have done that too 😂
The point is to put trans people in danger
Was it Mrs. Doubtfire?
Why is there such a hang up with where people pee or shit? Not to diminish trans struggles, but this should be a non-issue for law makers, not a state-by-state referendum on where a minority of people use the can.
Gender-neutral toilets for all – problem solved. It would also increase hygiene.
No real attempt to answer your question yet, so I’ll do my best:
An unknowable percentage of these people believe that people using the wrong restroom is a gateway to sexual assault.
An unknowable percentage of these people don’t believe that, but believe that it’s effective propaganda to assert it.
Combined, you more or less get MAGA.
“This tiny group of people are responsible for all the terrible things in your life. I will punish them for you.”
It works for immigrants, too. Manufactured outrage is a useful tool for amassing political power.
It’s previously been used against women, Jews, Muslims, gay people, gypsies, communists, any number of groups. Give the people a group to hate so they don’t start side-eying the small minority who have everything while the rest of us work and starve.
Outrage is also preferable because angry people don’t think rationally. Eventually they get addicted to dopamine from outrage and therefore want to stay angry. We are here.
To be fair, there is this tiny group of people who are responsible for a lot of terrible things in my life, but they never seem to get punished. They might temporarily get voted out, but they keep coming back.
Any guy that spends enough time skiing or snowboarding has seen a girl wearing a helmet and goggles use the mens room because there’s no line, and I’ve never seen anyone care.
Or been to a busy bar
In fact, I’ve faced at least three instances where women blocked the men’s room untill all the girls there finish their job. Like, I hate to point out, but men need to pee, and wtf is that supposed to mean?
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I’m just not going to die on this hill, no way.
Yeah, I think that’s the gist of the “who’s in the stall next to me” issue: it’s not by itself a hill worth dying on. Let them do their business, then they’ll clear out so I can do mine. I don’t give a damn where you shit or what organ you piss from, as long as you leave the place at least as clean as you found it.
It’s just that some people are dragging the rest of us into a stupid war over it, so now we gotta fight the bigots while learning to navigate a minefield of understandably sore spots, handle the “one signal, multiple audiences” problem and and deal with friendly fire by people meaning just as well as we do while we’re both struggling to see the battle lines.
Rich Jeni did a whole bit about that in the eighties.
“Soap and toilet paper for all my men!”
Yeah, see your problem is you’re looking at it like a person who goes in there, does what they need to and leaves.
The problem is the small amount of people that can’t handle that. They go in an jerk off in the stall to the thought of a 8 year old girl peeing next to them and that type of thing as an example.
So as a lawmaker you’re stuck between two places. You either yield to an incredibly small minority of trans people which as you said “who cares what bathroom you use” so why make a law that they can’t use the wrong genders bathroom. Or make a law that they can and also allow creepers and pedos access to people they wouldn’t otherwise in the process of letting them use whatever bathroom they want.
Personally, I don’t give a flying fuck what you identify as and I don’t want to hear about it, good for you you’re happy. If you have a cock go in the men’s if you have a vagina go in the women’s problem solved. If you want to die on the hill that going in an arbitrary labeled bathroom is that big of a deal grow up.
do you honestly think someone so far outside social acceptance as to go into a bathroom and jerk off to little girls is going to be restrained by a law saying he shouldn’t do that?
What you’re really saying, is I don’t care if this hurts an entire group of vulnerable minorities, because I imagined a whole fake scenario that makes me feel icky.
you’re a fucking loser, and a bigot.
What a fascinating insight into a melted brain
If you have a cock go in the men’s if you have a vagina go in the women’s problem solved
Clearly not, and the article is literally about that. They have vaginas, they went to the women’s stalls and yet it was a huge problem.
Personally, I think we need to see more gender neutral options.
So, in your idiotic hypothetical scenario of a person going into a bathroom to jerk off to the sex of the child in the stall next to them, you think it would be OK for a law to be made against gay men going into the men’s room?
jerk off
Yeah, but weirdos aren’t just straight. Tons of gay sexual predators, too, so the whole bathroom issue is a nothing burger.
Once again, we go on and off about protecting kids but do absolutely nothing to actually achieve that objective.
Assholes don’t care about bathrooms or they would simply make unisex ones with private stalls, open areas sinks, and complete view to the outside hallway. The safest and most reasonable option, but no here we are getting cops involved because people love being cruel.
Bonus points if having a small sink in a stall. Makes the process more hygienic and is invaluable in certain situations (mess, periods etc.)
Or at the very least a private room with all the amenities for the certain situations like you mentioned and families (diaper change, small children with parents, etc). Interestingly those are not uncommon.
We have that at the PDX airport!
PDX airport!
I have never been there, but I have seen photos and not only do they have the stall idea correct, the open area is beautiful. Just a really nice space.
The airpory only recently got remodeled and they did a really good job of it.
There is also the law in OR that airport restaurants must have the same prices as restaurants outside the airport, instead of price gouging a captive population.
Woah, that’s gorgeous!
Seen them at a venue in small town Texas too (touristy, but small).
Course they do. But they’ve grown up with segregated bathrooms in most places so it’s very difficult for them to treat unisex ones as a real option.
You’re treating people who disagree with you as if they only disagree about one thing.
They do only disagree about one thing: they have been worked up into a fantasy world through fear. They are stupid enough to believe that there is a danger that doesn’t exist. Fear spread by the very people who are using their power to literally be a danger to kids.
I have no compassion for idiots and fools.
They do only disagree about one thing: they have been worked up into a fantasy world through fear.
That doesn’t even parse. “Worked up into a fantasy world”?
Whatever it’s supposed to mean, I’m pretty sure it’s not the only thing you and transphobes disagree on.
Its like everything else: they didnt fear anything until they were told to. They believed disinformation and created a problem that didnt exist.
This was intentional. Eventually they’ll pass another more aggressive law to “do something about it”.
Is it illegal to use an opposite gendered restroom if I’m not trans?
Like if I’m a dude and look clearly like a dude and I walk into the women’s restroom is that illegal? What if it’s an emergency and then men’s room is full??
This whole thing is so stupid.
As a father, there were times when my children were in diapers that I had to do exactly that. Because it wasn’t until very recently that states started passing laws requiring changing stations be installed in both restrooms. And I wasn’t about to change my child’s diaper on the filthy floor of a toilet stall. Women were always very understanding about the issue.
It also wasn’t until very recently that states started passing these laws about who can use which restroom. It’s stupid and, as you can see from this story, it causes a lot more problems than it ever seeks to solve.
Depends on the state. Around here (Maryland) there is no law against it. If the owner wanted to make a deal of it, they could maybe argue tresspess for entering despite the gendered sign telling you not to.
In practice, I’ve seen (presumably) cis men in the women’s restroom to use the changing station as builders around here apparently are not familiar with the concept of fathers.
An extreme faux pas, for sure; but acceptable with the right excuses, respect, and announcement.
Meanwhile making women who type “:3” 30 times a day go to the mens room when no one would bat an eye otherwise is just… Insanely unproductive.
Depends on the state. In the one for the article, no.
Were they bothering anyone else using that restroom? I doubt it. Maybe the ones who watch everyone coming and going into such facilities should be investigated. Mind your own business, everyone has to relieve themselves. People are ridiculous.
As a dude with long hair, I walked into the stall and then heard the dude that I passed asking the service staff about me. He obviously did not see my beard. People really are ridiculous.
I am very much in favor of unisex toilets plus separated urinals. But we all know that you can’t argue with people who create such laws specifically to make the lives of others miserable.
“Don’t report me cuz you wanna kiss me, you pervert. The bathroom is for peepee and poopoo, not kisses, you filthy man. No one kiss this guy, he’ll make you do it in the bathroom.”
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Start calling the cops for every person that uses the bathroom. After all, we can’t be sure about their biological sex.
Seems logical to show the stupidity, but it could also backfire. You know how once cops get called to a scene, they have to find something wrong or someone to arrest. And that could easily be you since you called them. When people in legit danger have called the police and ended up getting shot, I’d say nope, leave them out of it.
Except those fuckers tend to shoot first, ask no questions later.
Biological sex isn’t real, it can’t hurt you
Demand that the cops prove their biological sex before letting them check the bathroom.
I accidentally misgendered someone going into a bathroom with me. I was 7, we were both little girls and I pointed her to the men’s room. 35 years later I still feel miserable about it. I learned that day and the shame will never let me forget that there’s absolutely no good reason to question or correct someone’s choice of bathroom. You don’t know them, you don’t know what’s in their pants, leave them to piss in peace.
We’re way past that in Kansas, where bathrooms are now fully weaponized.
I’m probably not thinking of the same thing as you when I hear the phrase ‘weaponised bathrooms’. I’m picturing turrets.
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THIS is a fucking powerful protest, good work fellas. <3
Fuck all the transphobes. It’s such bullshit and tiring. And I’m a cis white dude, so I don’t have to put up with this shit myself, and it’s still tiring just to hear about it for decades and decades and decades. (Putting up with it is much worse is what I’m saying…)
Mad respect to those that stood up (or… sat down, tee hee hee) in protest. These guys are in the perfect position to make this statement and point out how ridiculous it all is.
Agreed. Pretty clever protest that reveals this was never about “banning the wrong gendered-person from using their preferred bathroom.” It was always “ban the wrong-gendered person”, and the corpo-protecting pigs played right into it.
As much as I get a little tired of men claiming to be victims of prejudice, though, I do have to admit that this seems to be one of the valid areas (among others). Transphobes are clearly not wanting transwomen in women’s spaces, but then they also don’t want transmen there. You can’t have it both ways, at a minimum.
But I find my brain trying to be sympathetic (to the transphobes’ fear of ‘men’ in women’s spaces, be that transmen or transwomen, they seem to think all of them are “men”) - and I have to say to that part of my brain (that has had decades of transphobia propaganda that I disagree with, but it still gets in the brain - in our culture) “What? No, fuck off. Humans with human rights. Everyone needs to pee. Good grief, just… can we make bathroom stall doors actually private and unisex all the bathrooms? Because who gives a fuck, people need to pee in peace, LET THEM PEE IN PEACE”…
It’s very frustrating living in this culture.
(I’d still argue, btw, that women face FAR more problems with misogyny than men do with misandry - but on the other hand, all misogyny and misandry is wrong, so it’s hard to have nuanced debate sometimes)
That and punishing gender nonconforming women, cis and trans. Plenty of “masculine” cis women end up getting treated like criminals too.
Brave dudes! Good shit
Trying to find and point out logical gotchas to this hatred are a fools errand; the conservatives don’t care. Their base lacks empathy, so good luck appealing to any sense of decency that they [do not] have.
There needs not be any sort of train-of-thought, other than “Fuck the [derogatory words]”. They use words like “science”, “biology”, and “safety” to cloak their hatred in the appearance of law and order. It’s all a game for them, designed to erase us.
They will absolutely come for the rest of the LGBTQ+ community once we are gone. Obergefell will be next. And unless the establishment democrats grow a spine, or are replaced by progressives that will stand up for us, the steamrolling will continue.
That said, protests like these need to happen, and I commend those brave dudes.
I believe the adage is ‘you can’t reason someone out of a position they didn’t reason themselves into.’
also,
It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.
Upton Sinclair
Nobody’s salary depends on randomly oppressing trans people, though, except to the extent that it’s a distraction tactic from grift elsewhere.
Nobody’s salary depends on randomly oppressing trans people, though
counterpoint: the kansas police
Their salary depends on oppressing people, but there’s no particular reason it has to be trans people. The choice of victim is entirely arbitrary and therefore that choice can’t be motivated by money.
They will absolutely come for the rest of the LGBTQ+ community once we are gone.
Once you are gone? Is there some indication that your erasure is actually happening? I mean are there fewer trans people now than there were 5 years ago?
Erased. Perhaps a touch of hyperbole. If we are outside of society, do we exist?
Shushed into oblivion, rather
First it was the blacks, then more and more people had black friends.
Then it was gays, but more and more families had out gay people.
Now it’s trans people, but this is a passing thing.
Who will these weirdos go after next?
These things pass because we organize, inform and fight. They don’t pass on their own.
Oh, of course they do. But there is more to it than that.
In the 50s not many gay people were out so it was easy for the Christian right to convince the masses they were child molesters and weirdos worthy of hell. By the 80s, Pride and community unity helped people come out of the closet and not be ashamed or afraid to show the world who they were. Lots of people were coming out of the closet and everyone had at least one gay person in their life. Now it’s harder to convince someone that gay people are bad because they’re exposed to more gay people and they see they’re just like everyone else.
The mob is stupid. Awareness alone doesn’t cut it. They need exposure as well.
Women
The subjugation of women is a foundational element of capitalist exploitation.
