CORRECTION: A previous version of this article misstated that this poll had a likely voter screen. Democrats have a 57%-40% lead among men ages 18-30 who say they’re the most determined to vote.
Good luck getting a job if you vote R
As I turn into an old man, it’s almost overwhelming the realization of just how fucking dumb the average young man is.
To be old and wise, one must first be young and foolish.
Good judgment comes from experience.
Experience comes from bad judgment.
Let’s be honest though, when were were young, we were pretty stupid too. I mean I used to have some level of respect for Libertarians back in the day.
“Stupid” yes, but never “vote Republican” stupid.
Oh 100%, I think that’s the overwhelming part for me. These fucking idiots keep showing me my past self.
I used to be a libertarian back in the day; partly because I didn’t understand socialism, or libertarianism for that matter. But I think mostly because my prefrontal cortex hadn’t fully developed yet so my capacity for empathy was limited.
I was pretty fucking stupid.
Hey at least we lived and learned, grew past the whole teenaged edgelord phase of things. More than I can say for some of those Gen-Xer’s I grew up with.
Right on, and we keep living and learning by remaining humble about how fucking dumb we still are.
As we age, the ego takes a step back and it becomes easier to accept our shortcomings. The more I learn the more I realize I don’t know sort of thing.
My self-realization came down to: Sometimes I’m just an asshole despite my best efforts.
Libertarianism makes sense in a culture where you feel markets will keep themselves honest.
Reality , of course, is disappointing and I was a stupid young man for believing that.
I think the unspoken and fatal prerequisite for libertarianism is that it requires a truly equal society that doesn’t have white supremacy baked into it.
It doesn’t cause that kind of society, it needs it to be preexisting, and so in the context of modern America it would just serve to bolster the existing inequalities.
Or just be an anarchist. It rejects these current systems but without the white supremacy bullshit.
Direct action is the insistence, when faced with structures of unjust authority, on acting as if one is already free.
-David Graeber
We need each other to do things that we can’t do for ourselves. If we are intimately connected with each other, we just give things to each other; if we don’t know each other we find another way to handle it. If you think about it, each according to his or her abilities and each according to his or her needs is sort of the same thing as supply and demand.
-David Graeber
Brilliant.
I have been going down a David Graeber rabbit hole for the past few months, and I am certainly on that trajectory. It’s funny, I’ve heard anecdotally that there is a surprisingly direct pipeline from disillusioned evangelical christian to anarchist, and it makes sense. The principles of anarchy resonate with the most basic lessons we are taught and which Christianity has sort of claimed for itself as how to be godly.
Anarchy has an amazingly bad branding challenge though, especially in America. I thought socialism had a bad brand, and then I started learning what anarchy actually is. Yikes.
I would say I am totally aligned intellectually with the principles of anarchy as I understand them today, and yet I still reflexively equate the very word with “disorder” and “chaos”. I have to be very intentional to turn my intellectual agreement into an actual warm fuzzy vibe when I hear or read the word. The connotations are set deep. I don’t think I’m unique or even in the minority in that regard, and I’m certain that’s no accident. Right now my sense of things is that socialism is the most practical path to anarchy, but even reading back the words I just wrote, I think at least half of america would think I was describing some sort of leftist terror plot.
On the bright side, I do think that the open corruption and incompetence of our world leaders has begun to undercut the baked in idea that rulers create order. Hopefully the more we as a society see the man behind the proverbial curtain and parse the real fact that Nobody Knows What They Are Doing, the necessity of mutual aid begins to become more clear.
I agree with a lot of the libertarian beliefs, but the people who actually call themselves that are absolutely insane.
Believing in freedom, equality and liberty for all is great until you meet someone that wants to remove all rules and regulations.
It’s the gateway to the sovereign citizen phenomenon.
It advocates for equality while destroying the institutions that could create equality.
I get why it appeals to young white men - they don’t need the federal government because it was built to work for them, and so it all looks like waste.
That’s because most libertarians are just ashamed conservatives/gop/magats
I fall into a social libertarian political spectrum more than anything else. I believe most people do when they are ok with private companies, socialism for citizens and regulations for said private companies.
Same, and same.
always has been
Eh. At least they’re (presumably) learning their lesson instead of sticking their heads in the sand. It sucks that they put Cheeto McPedo into power, but hopefully this leads to evwryone waking up and putting a stop to MAGA
Not exactly great that 40% of young men are still listening to Joe Rogan.
I still don’t understand how he got from Fear Factor to “trusted” talking head.
Its the celebrity effect. I even saw it with otherwise respected individuals like Neil DeGrasse Tyson. People fundamentally cannot understand that a person who is a subject matter expert in one are may be completely out of their element in another area. Add in social media letting then (intentionally or not) amplify their most mundane thoughts and boom. You’re ah “influencer” on any topic you choose to talk about.
Joe Rogan seemed different because he had the sense to bring other smart people on and let them talk. But that mask slipped off over the years.
After the stories I’ve heard from a family member who teaches middle schoolers I’m glad it’s only 40%.
Although Rogan has been increasingly critical of Trump and MAGA for what it’s worth.
Not worth much unfortunately with how completely malleable he is without a single lick of critical thinking skills.
Where’d you read that statistic? I can’t find Rogan’s name anywhere in the linked article or the underlying poll they’re talking about
You like that one, I’ve got a worse one: in 2024 Trump won the male youth vote with 55% according to some exit polls, the largest shift towards conservatives ever recorded in youth of both genders and the reversal of a decades long trend where youth were consistently more progressive.
I blame Beijing and their fucking TikTok psyops.
Indoctrination is a hell of a thing.
Of course they are.
- Party A wins election, workers make less, companies make more.
- It’s the last election! Party A will seize power if we don’t stop them! They’re cheating!
- Party B wins election, workers make less, companies make more.
- It’s the last election! Party B will seize power if we don’t stop them! They’re cheating!
- Party A wins… repeat for 200 years
BoTh SiDeS aren’t the same, one is pro-LGBT, the other is pro-church. However, they are bOtH anti-union and pro-billionaire. For evidence, look at company profits vs. worker earnings for the past 70 years.
Each party uses the other to blame their “mistakes” (i.e. deliberate failures against popular will) on. The only “cure” presented is party A or party B, both refuse to represent the people.
Something like 80% of voters want universal healthcare, 90% Democratic support with 60% independent support and even 30% Republican support. Since the 1990s. It doesn’t matter.
The vast majority of people want higher minimum wage. Undeniable. Over 20 years of “15 an hour” protests. Biden won on minimum wage platform. Doesn’t matter.
Nobody wanted to go to war against Iraq. Trump won on a “no war” platform. Doesn’t matter.
I vote in every election, and you should, too. Because it’s funny.
All I know is that for my entire life when Dems are in power we have economic recovery, better healthcare, and a lot less chaos.
Every time republicans get in power we hit some kind of calamity. Republican calamities include 9/11, 2008 financial meltdown, covid, and now ICE murders + new war in Iran. Sure some of these weren’t directly caused by the admins but boy it’s weird how their general style of governance seems to open the door to shit.
I get every party benefits big business, but dems have a better track record of not ruining everything. They’re not perfect but the track record is there to show republicans are actually bad for the economy and bad for society and the world despite their weirdly effective marketing that seems to convinced a lot of people that they are the party of good business. They are clearly not, and furthermore the government is NOT a business and should not be run like one.
All I know is that for my entire life when Dems are in power we have economic recovery, better healthcare, and a lot less chaos.
I noticed you left war and genocide out of this little list.
You’re mostly right. But things do matter. No one wanted to go to war. And the consequences of going to war was so bad that Cheney didn’t even try to run for president. Literally no one in America wanted to be involved in Iran, and now Trump’s cult is melting down as their gas prices explode. This absolutely will affect midterms.
Suck that change for the people is slow, but it happens. Actions still have consequences.
Literally no one in America wanted to be involved in Iran
I guarantee you the evangelicals did. They control the Republican party, they got exactly what they wanted.
I hear you, but if you look at things that the progressive wing of the dems are doing, there’s a clear sign that one of the parties is willing to do something. Look at Mamdani in NYC fighting against wage theft. Look at Abdul campaigning with backing from Harris and his pro labor platform and experience.
I’d cite AOC and some others, but what a lot of dems did with the train union is appalling and I have no defense for it. But I will say that they are far more pro labor than the Rs. Even the more conservative dems back programs like OSHA, which save lives.
Look at Mamdani in NYC fighting against wage theft. Look at Abdul campaigning with backing from Harris and his pro labor platform and experience.
These things are happening in spite of the Democratic party - not because of it. Just look at how hard it was to convince the leadership to back Mamdani even after his meteoric rise.
Whether it’s in spite of the party or because of it, it’s still a good sign that the Overton window is shifting and people are more willing than ever to vote for progressive candidates. If we can keep this momentum up then progressives will eventually be the leadership.
I think it’s fair to say that the same people who are pro working class, progressive candidates are more likely to side with the pro lgbt party over the pro churchianity party, whether or not there is corruption among either of the establishments. You know, if they have to choose one side or the other. Assuming the DSA movement takes over, the obvious shills will either have to splinter off or defect to the republicans.
The tide of billionaire or AIPAC money has not helped anyone win an election in a while now, that paints a pretty good picture tbh
I think it’s a stretch to say one Party is willing to do something. I think the people willing to do something tend to end up in one party, and those are not the same thing. I think there’s a plurality, and perhaps even a majority within the Democrats that are committed to actually helping, but there’s also a significant faction that are committed to undermining every step forward, and that’s going to keep being a problem. By “A lot more pro-labor” what they end up meaning is that there’s a lot of pro-labor reps, but they’re never going to make a difference because the rest of the party isn’t going to commit to being a real “party” with shared goals and principles and the things that make a party more than just a fundraising apparatus. It’s two parties in a trench coat, one with money and very little public appeal, and one with broad public appeal and very little money.
Now that does mean something important. It means they’re probably not going to successfully make things worse, which at this point is a lot more than we can say for the GOP, and that matters, but it also means that if things are going to get better, we’re going to have to figure out how to do it ourselves, and not look to “the party” to save us.
Except one of the parties actually has interest in, and has constantly threatened for several years now, seizing power.
It doesn’t fucking matter that there are people saying the same thing about Democrats, it’s not true.
You’re confusing neoliberals with Democrats, something that only helps neoliberals and Republicans and hurts literally everyone else…
Did they vote in the primaries? Are they registered to vote? Do they know where to vote? Do they know who is running to represent them? Because good vibes doesn’t mean poll results.
If potential Republican voters instead choose to stay at home and not vote, that’s also good.
Now is the perfect time to tell them the BotH sIDes ARe thE sAMe!
If they aren’t likely to vote GOP let’s make sure they don’t vote at all!
I hate to reignite the thing, but if the ones who aren’t going to vote GOP and are willing to listen to you don’t vote, you do realize that’s a shoe-in in many places for the GOP candidate. I know, the other is trash too, but have we really gotten to the point where the GOP still has a locked in vote because every election the other side’s voters always fight with each other and ruin the potential sweep they had? IS this how the left works now? Seems like it. How do you fix that when the ones who are (understandable) pissed off keep turning away votes that DON’T get the right holding power? Circling the drain with this logic.
Basically, it’s up to all of us to educate people whenever we get the chance.
Here are three stories I have been repeating for years.
Back in 1968, old school Communists and anarchists, the folks who’d actually gone to Spain to fight Franco and been blacklisted, were telling people to vote for Humphrey. To a lot of young voters then Humphrey looked as bad as Nixon. To the oldtimers, Nixon was one of the people who’d helped kill Ethel Rosenberg. They knew Nixon was evil, and they were proved right.
Second. A lot of people point to Martin Luther King as a saint. They don’t look past the public persona and see that he was a shrewd political operator who strategically timed his actions. Rosa Parks wasn’t the first woman to refuse to give up her seat on a public bus, but she was the one they chose to rally around. One of King’s top aides was Bayard Ruskin, a gay man. King knew about the raw deal LGBTQ+ people had, but he also knew that America wasn’t ready for that conversation.
Third. Frederick Douglas was an escaped slave. His speeches and books had made him famous. He had a chance to back a candidate who was storng for Abolition. Instead, Douglas backed Lincoln, who was more committed to saving the Union. Douglas gambled that it was better to win and be at the table than it was to lose and have no influence at all.
More recent and maybe as pivotal was the move to get Ralph Nader in 2000. They knew he wouldn’t win, but the line I remember was that if the Green Party got 5% of the vote then they’d get a lot more funding next election. The right idea in trying to break the two party system, but the wrong approach, and who knows how things would have branched with an easy Gore win instead of the mess we got. “They’re both the same” - maybe in some ways, and that’s its own fight, but in other ways they are absolutely not.
Trump won the male youth vote and made serious gains in female youth, likely a result of Beijing’s TikTok psyops.
So they knew where to vote in 2024.
Any adult who votes alt right should not just be welcomed for realising their hatred is wrong. Cause they’ll be as fickle next time they get an easy “solution” offered for their problems.
Obviously they shouldn’t be shunned forever. But I wish their were more consequences than “whoopsie daisy I accidentally aligned with fascists”
I think the most disturbing thing about fascism is that most people just go along with the cruelty until it really stops working as effective governance.
The cruel people must really hate how Trump keeps TACO’ing out of his threats.
I may be wrong, but I suspect that Trump’s spiritual successor really will mean what they say when they threaten to murder an entire country. The cruel people would love to see news that Iran has been turned into a giant radioactive crater.
I’ve seen a bunch of fiction recently which predicts the world will end in the late 2050s-early 2060s. Would be interesting if reality matches that; the prediction is in line with our reality thus far.
Fickle lot.
Did they really believe trump!?
Not necessarily. They believed whatever their podcast host on Twitch said to believe, and they were paid to say “believe in Trump”. Or at best “both sides are the same it doesn’t matter”
Democrats meanwhile did nothing because they are extremely slow with adapting to how the youth consume news.
The both sides are the same thing makes my eyes shake
